Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > The Music Forums > General Music
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2014, 01:50 PM   #31 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
lol. How can you not understand,

I don't understand people who make bold statements about another artists music but have not listened to their music to make a good judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
and what does it matter?
It matters because a person should not be making a judgement about an artist entire discography when they have not listened to the artists entire discography.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
Apples or oranges, albums or songs, DJ's listened to her material, and that makes it fine for him to present an opinion on it.
It is not apples and oranges. He only listed her singles from various albums and did not mention albums he has listened to for himself.

Kelis is an eclectic artist. All her songs do not sound the same. She experiments with alot of different genres.

If that is his opinions thats fine.... but listening to five songs from various different albums is not a good judgement of her entire discography.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
And actually, you can't even listen to an albuinm; you can only listen to the songs on the album but whatever.

Huh?

This makes no sense.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?


He made a bold statement about her as an artist and about her entire discography. Someone who has only listened to 5 songs out of her entire discography should not make bold statements such as that when they have not listened to all of the artists music, period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
You're being ridiculous here asking for more than some of her well-known songs.

Kelis is not a mainstream artist. She only has two mainstream hits and that is Milkshake and Bossy. I am not asking him to mention unknown songs. He did not even mention albums or an album he listened to. All her albums sound completely different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
Also, he mentioned an album earlier.
Clearly, he's familiar with an album.
No he did not



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
What a thoroughly subjective statement.
This entire conversation is subjective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
Are you an expert on music sales? I highly doubt you have the technical knowledge to even begin to make such a claim. Unless you can draw up some kind of factual-based comparison, this is just conjecture.
I don't know what your problem is but I have never said I was the expert of sale figures or anything of the sort.

DJ said that Beyonce's album initial album sells would have still been the same even if JT, Katy and so forth released there album when she did hers.

I disagree with that because there is past evidence that shows that she does not sell well when other artists drop there album around the same time she does hers.

For example, in 2011 when Adele released her "21" album she out sold everyone INCLUDING Beyonce. In fact Adele's 21 album went diamond!

Beyonce does not have a diamond album and Adeles 21 album is still selling till this day

Beyonces sales figures that were recently presented by Sound Scan shows that combining all 5 of her albums she has a total of 15 million albums sold.

I think this is a very very small number of sells for someone of her status. There are artists that sell 15 million off of one album alone.



Her initial sells for her latest album was due to the way she released it not because it was such a great great album with great great music. Her sells have died down though for that album.

She is not an artist that sells a lot in terms of albums.

She is more so a "singles" artist similar to Rihanna but Rihanna sells more singles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpnfire View Post
Can you provide ANY reviews from a respectable source that give a "rave" review for the reasons you describe?

A review is not going to say..." This is the best album of 2013 because of the way she released it" but I know that is why she got all those good reviews because the album sucks quality wise. When I have some time I will find some reviews.
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 04:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
A.B.N.
 
djchameleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NY baby
Posts: 11,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I am not bashing her. I am giving constructive criticism and I have legitimate reasons for my opinion. You need to stop saying someone is bashing or someone is a hater just because they give constructive criticism.

I could see if there was no rational to my argument but there is so I am not sure why you keep insisting that I am bashing her when I am not.
Constructive criticism? Really? Just calling her music boring is constructive criticism in your books? I'm not saying you have to like her music but that is in no way constructive criticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Also, it does not matter what I think, I am talking about what the media says and projects and she does not nearly get as much criticism as the others.

If Miley, Rihanna or Lady Gaga had made lyrics like that they would have gotten dragged through the mud by the media.

You are doing the same thing that you do in arguments about artists not getting enough credit. You bring up the media and it's always based off of your perspective of what the media says. There is no way in hell that you can actually prove anything. You can snatch up a few articles here and there if you want to but there is no way to prove what the overall media says because it's all different sources. You choose to not see all the hate and being dragged through the mud that she gets and make your opinion based off of that when it's not really the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
No she does not. Even when she finally got some criticism for her lip singing last year, everyone was still supporting her and making excuses for her. I remember J Lo even insisted that Whitney lip singed so why couldn't Beyonce.

If Michael Jackson did not get a passed
If Madonna did not get a passed
If Janet Jackson did not get passed
If Whitney Houston did not get a passed
If Britney Spears did not get a passed

Why should Beyonce get a passed for lip singing?
I would ask you who this everyone was but you'd probably just fall back on your tried and true statement of the "media". I can understand her fans sticking up for her but you go above and beyond to place the blame on the media when there are people in the media that are on both sides of the coin. Regardless she didn't get this "pass" that you are referring to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Beyonce had some pretty raunchy lyrics and music videos on her latest album and the media and critics raved about it and did not mention anything about her questionable lyrics and her more raunchier image.

Miley Cyrus does the same thing but they drag her all the time but they don't say anything about Beyonce or when she does it.

They say she is a good role model for young girls or make excuses by saying she represents "feminism"

I have a problem with that because showing your ass is not "feminism" and I don't see how singing about how it is okay to let a man hit you is being a good role model for young girls.
You also have a problem with telling girls to be comfortable with their bodies.
Do you also have a problem with her singing about female empowerment?
You keep denying that you are slut shaming but that's exactly what you are doing. Women aren't supposed to be proud of their bodies in your eyes. They should be covered from head to toe with dresses that drag across the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
You make it seem like Beyonce gets criticized all the time and that is not true.
She does actually by people just like you! Anything she does she gets ripped apart for. So much so that it seems like you have a personal beef with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Just like I figured, you just mention her singles and did not even list albums that you have listened to.
You asked me for songs and I gave you songs. Now that's not enough and you want me to list off albums. I'm not going to listen to the entire discography of someone that I don't like. I don't go around saying that you have to listen to every Lady Gaga, Beyonce and Rihanna album before you make your outlandish claims that they make boring uninteresting music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
If you do not care for her that is okay but don't say you have listened to her music when you have not.
I can listen to only one song of a band/artist and say I have heard their music and make a judgement off of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
That song sounds nothing like what Beyonce has done but if you think so... okay.
Did you even listen to B'day? yeah....thought so. Yet you want to criticize me for not listening to all of Kelis' albums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Sound Scan recently came out with her sale figures and she has sold a combined total of 15 million copies which is not really a lot for a artist of her stature. There are artists that are less known that have sold more than that. Her albums do not sell a lot and I highly doubt she would have still sold well with all those artists dropping their albums at the same time which is why her team waited to release her album at the last minute.
You can doubt that all you want but that's your personal opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
You can release a single and still not have promotion.
He did not do the Superbowl like Beyonce did.
He did not sing at the Inauguration like Beyonce did.
He did not have world tour like Beyonce did.
He did not have Pepsi commercial and endorsements like Beyonce did
He did not leak any of his songs to test the strength of them like Beyonce did

She had PLENTY of promotion before she dropped her album like that. David Bowie did not before he dropped his singles online out of the blue.
All she did was kept herself relevant in the public eye. She didn't perform any of her new songs at any of those events that you listed. I think you need to look up the definition of promotion. She was NOT promoting her new album.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
You said I found that out through my "small circle". How do you think I am suppose to take that? That is why I asked how do you know who I went to or talked to me about the album? People talked about it for a week and that was it. No one talks about that album.
I said your small circle because all of these claims are only based off of your perspective and it's purely subjective and anecdotal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
She added that speech in the beginning of that song AFTER she received backlash over the summer for it. She wanted to turn it around and make it about Feminism.

That is annoying how she uses a complex powerful meaningful theory as Feminism to get away with the things.

Everything is not feminism.

That song is ratchet, conceited and has nothing to feminism.
I thought she was such a media darling? If she was then she wouldn't have even had this backlash that you are referring to. You are also mixing up the female empowerment with feminism they aren't interchangeable.
__________________
Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxyRollah View Post
IMO I don't know jack-**** though so don't listen to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Pepe Kalle View Post
The problem is that most police officers in America are psychopaths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
You're a terrible dictionary.
djchameleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:04 PM   #33 (permalink)
Crazyyyyyy Train
 
Celladorina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,831
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post

It is nothing wrong with being proud of your body but I find issue with a woman who calls them self a role model for young girls but then shows their ass in videos and acts like a slut knowing that most of her fans are young underage impressionable girls. You cant have it both ways. You cant say you care about children and then turn around and act like that in your videos. You cant be the slut AND the girl next door. I just think she does and says things for money doesn't really care about those young girls.

Janelle Monae is a better role model.
I don't see Bey acting like a slut. Partition is about her sexual empowerment with her partner. It's not slutty to have a sexuality. Showing your ass doesn't mean you are a slut. Last time I checked, being a slut means you sleep with lots of different men. Who are these men you are speaking of her being a slut with?

STOP SLUT SHAMING!!
Celladorina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 09:15 PM   #34 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Two Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I don't think this has anything to do with fans per se.


I think this has to do with the critics and the media.

Regardless whether David Bowie is more or less relevant than Beyonce, he was the first to release a digital album without promotion.

He deserves that credit.
I agree that he's the first, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Bowie's album sold 85,000 the first week and Beyonce's album sold 600,000+ in its first three days.

Bowie isn't being snubbed. His digital release just didn't have any impact like Beyonce's did.
Two Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 09:40 PM   #35 (permalink)
Former Vulpix
 
Ninetales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: livin wild
Posts: 2,124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
he was the first to release a digital album without promotion.
What about the hundreds of thousands of bands you've never heard of releasing digital albums every day without promotion?
Ninetales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:17 PM   #36 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla View Post
I don't see Bey acting like a slut. Partition is about her sexual empowerment with her partner. It's not slutty to have a sexuality. Showing your ass doesn't mean you are a slut. Last time I checked, being a slut means you sleep with lots of different men. Who are these men you are speaking of her being a slut with?

STOP SLUT SHAMING!!
Yall can call it slut shaming, slut hating, slut bashing... I dont care lol

I think she acts like a slut on stage and in her videos and I think she purposely capitalizes off of it.

Side Note: I am not calling HER a slut specifically (because I do not know her personally) but yes she does act like that on stage and in her music videos.

I think that is all she obviously wants to be seen as: "sex symbol" and that is fine I just wish she would present that in a more creative way.

Any descent person with self- respect would not display their ass like that in a video or pose half naked in their video just for a quick buck. You can still sell sexuality without doing that and even if you are I just think it should be at least more artistic.

For instance, Madonna did the same thing in the 90s but it was artistic and creative. It told a story and had a overall message.


I don't see anything wrong selling sexuality but as long as it is done in a creative and artistic way.



With Beyonce, its the same old sex kitten act but its not done in a creative or artistic way. It does not tell a story or has deeper meaning behind it.

She is suppose to be an artist. She is a singer and even if she wanted to sell sex in all her music I think it should have some artistic merit behind it.

Not just her laying half naked on the floor singing "I want to be the kinda girl you like" in every single video.

Because to me what that shows is, she is simply capitalizing off a easy money making market (the sex market) in order to compensate for her bland music.


Paritian is not about sexual empowerment. I am tired of people making her silly songs deeper than what they are.

Are Rihanna sexual songs empowerment as well?

How about Miley's?

Because I am tired of this double standard with Beyonce.

I think the meaning in the song is a negative message especially for young girls and young women. It teaches girls that you have to be submissive to men and that "you should be the kinda girl they like" Really Beyonce? That is all you want to be? I just personally feel like that sends a bad message to this generation especially the females that listen to this crap and think that is what they should be.

I especially take that personally since I am apart of this generation

Young women think they should show their ass and be the kinda woman MEN want them to be in order to be valued because of silly corporate songs like this not realizing these singers do not give a damn about them and just care about money.


ONCE AGAIN, Janelle Monae is a better role model and overall better artist.

It is a shame how in order to be successful as a pop female singer you have to show your ass and sell your soul. I am glad that there are some with dignity and self-respect.
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:20 PM   #37 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies
Posts: 1,385
Default

just wanna add i do agree with part of what realtalk has said despite not readin much of this thread. beyonce has always had a weird double standard. act like a sex kitten on stage but is revered for it and is 'empowering' and stuff... lol @ slut shaming
butthead aka 216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Spirit View Post
I agree that he's the first, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Bowie's album sold 85,000 the first week and Beyonce's album sold 600,000+ in its first three days.

Bowie isn't being snubbed. His digital release just didn't have any impact like Beyonce's did.
I see your point ......but he is technically being snubbed if he is not being credited as the first to do it.

Once again,

Beyonce had the Superbowl for promotion
Beyonce had a world wide tour
Beyonce had the pepsi commercials
Beyonce singed at the inauguration

So she had more commercial promotion than Bowie so naturally she initially would sell more but it does not change that he was the first.

I think his sells are more impressive being he had NO promotion AT ALL.
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:42 PM   #39 (permalink)
A.B.N.
 
djchameleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NY baby
Posts: 11,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post

I think his sells are more impressive being he had NO promotion AT ALL.
having singles on the radio and music videos before and album drops counts as promotion for an upcoming album whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
__________________
Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxyRollah View Post
IMO I don't know jack-**** though so don't listen to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Pepe Kalle View Post
The problem is that most police officers in America are psychopaths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
You're a terrible dictionary.
djchameleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
having singles on the radio and music videos before and album drops counts as promotion for an upcoming album whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

And you think doing the Superbowl, having a world wide tour, having pepsi commercials, singing at the inauguration isn't?

Bowie did not release an official date for his albums. He dropped those singles out of the blue. It had been 10 years since he had released an album and he was not in the public eye promoting anything.
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2020 Advameg, Inc.