Soulflower

Thanks!

You made a bold statement so I just simply ask for you to explain your opinion because I am interested in hearing peoples opinions.


Just because I am interested in hearing others opinions on the issue does not mean I am seeking justification for a artist I like.

Regardless whether you like her or not, her music is catchy, she is attractive, she is a good performer and she has other it qualities about her that would be ideal for marketing a pop star. I don't care whether she becomes a superstar or not because I will always love her. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss for discussion purposes.

Screen13

Connections, connections, connections. It was always that way through the ages. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with it, as it always works when you play the card right, but sadly the number of the more daring connections have been less in number. Also, in my opinion, those who push the buttons have been a little bland and calculated in the music taste department Stateside. I have to admit elsewhere around the world, the Pop scenes have a little more flavor to my taste.

Sometimes it works with the public, other times it does not.

The Industry changes with the "changing of the guard" - one series of people deposing another, and the usual tale if that when someone takes charge, the goal is to discredit what happened before or at least knock the rising stars and keep the established ones. A chess game - Machiavelli style with Beat.

Carpe Mortem

Mainstream music acts are basically actors and actresses. Industry big wigs decide on a set, or badass stage show and general theme, then find people who fit the part physically and personality wise. This is because the radio masses are more likely to consider a concert with enormous props and amazing lighting, interesting, than a talented musician. Ask anyone who's not really into music about the best show they've been to, the stage is the first thing mentioned with the auditory experience an afterthought.

People who can afford to make an awesome set, or know others willing to help them, also have an opportunity to break into the mainstream. Its all about marketing a performer... not a musician. Personally, I'm not bothered by it. Just look at what they do as a different kind of art.

And of course... there are exceptions. But mainly its about money, luck, or connections. Bigger record companies see trends going slightly in one direction then push it a million times further in that direction by signing tons of artists in that general category who are marketable personas.

Since we're discussing conspiracy theories. Thats mine. Just thought of it.

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Ninetales

Welcome to the real world. This is not exclusive to popular music, but all music. Any band or artist you know, you've heard of because of those 3 things. I'd argue luck is the biggest contributor to any artist's success or lack there of.

Carpe Mortem

I'd argue that you're not allowed in this thread anymore because you're discussing logic and this is a place for conspiracy theories only.

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Soulflower

First off, THANKS, really great perspectives here.



I agree with you on this because there are alot of industry folk that kiss the asses of some of the most overrated artists and I have no clue as to why. I think it is apart of a script for artists to follow and to say about other artists.

I know that its not professional to publicly bad mouth another artist but some of these compliments these bland current pop stars receive is so ridiculous to the point you would think they were talking about Mozart. LOL Either that or they are getting paid to or they smoking something.... lol


For some reason current popular music doesn't seem to be about "music" and more so about image. It wasn't like that years ago. Image played a role of course but it wasn't the only means to how a pop star became popular.

Its sickening. We have little girls looking up to these hyper sexual singers and they want to be like them. smh There is nothing "cute" about that.

Soulflower

Absolutely!

Its just that these pop singers are just so bland and boring. For some reason the general music listener eats them up and doesn't seem care. It would be one thing if they were at least somewhat "interesting." Todays pop singers have to rely on things non related to music to stay relevant like movies, tv shows, clothing line, perfume line, commercials, etc.

Dario Western

It's a basic human truth: the law of averages.

"For many are called, but few are chosen."

Psy-Fi

Back in 1989, Frank Zappa released an autobiography called "The Real Frank Zappa Book." Being a big fan of Zappa and The Mothers of Invention, I bought a copy of the book and read it through. In the book, Frank mentions a speech he gave, in 1984, to the convention of the American Society of University Composers (ASUC). It was one of many interesting parts in the book, that stuck in my mind, and it is just as relevant today and just as humorous now as it was then. I found the entire speech reproduced at a website and thought I'd post some excerpts here, since they fit the topic of this thread. I've also included the link to the entire speech, in case anyone is interested in reading it in it's entirety.

Here are some excerpts from the speech...


"Back in the old days, when all the REALLY GOOD MUSIC was being written, composers were TRULY INSPIRED, had a DEEP MEANING in their works and SUFFERED INTENSE EMOTIONAL DISCOMFORT as these GREAT WORKS were 'BORN'."

Yes, people still believe in this kind of stuff. In truth, the situation was pretty much the same as now, (with a few slight variations).

THEN: The composer had to write for the specific tastes (no matter how bad) of, THE KING, THE POLITICAL DICTATOR, or THE CHURCH. Failure to do so resulted in unemployment, torture or death. The public was not consulted. They simply were not equipped to make assessments of relative merit from gavotte to gavotte. If the KING couldn't gavotte to it, then it had no right to exist.

ALL OF THE SWILL PRODUCED UNDER THESE CONSTRAINTS IS WHAT WE NOW ADMIRE AS 'REAL CLASSICAL MUSIC'. Forget what it sounds like . . . forget whether or not you happen to enjoy it . . . that's how it got made . . . and when music is taught in schools, it is the 'taste norms' of those KINGS, DICTATORS, and CLERICS which are perpetuated in the harmony and counterpoint classes.

After those are doled out, and the student gets to the 'advanced stuff', he is introduced to the splendors of 12-tone rigmarole, serialized dynamics, and computer programming of 'automated indeterminate composition'.

Those 'tools' enable the budding genius to do what everybody else does in 'modern life': hide behind preposterous regulations (preferably as a member of a 'committee'), in order to absolve himself of blame or responsibility for 'individual action' --- in this case, the heinous act of 'musical creation'. By conforming to these idiocies, the young composer receives praise, certification of splendidness, and GRANT MONEY. Everything his teachers would murder for.

Anyone not choosing to follow this approved method of enlightenment is regarded as a fool or a pervert.

Today, the composer has to write for the specific tastes (no matter how bad) of 'THE KING' (now disguised as a Movie or TV producer, The Head of the Opera Company, The Lady With The Frightening Hair on the Special Committee, or her niece, DEBBIE).

Some of you don't know about DEBBIE since you don't have to deal with radio stations or record companies in the way that people from the 'other world' do, but you ought to find out about her, just in case you decide to 'switch over' later.

DEBBIE is thirteen years old. Her parents like to think of themselves as 'average, God-fearing American White People'. Her dad belongs to a corrupt Union of some sort and is, as we might suspect, a lazy incompetent, over-paid, ignorant sonofabitch. Her mom is a sexually maladjusted mercenary shrew who lives only to spend her husband's paycheck on ridiculous clothes designed to make her look 'younger'.

DEBBIE is incredibly stupid. She has been raised to respect the values and attitudes which her parents hold sacred. Sometimes she dreams about being kissed by a lifeguard.

When the people in THE SECRET OFFICE WHERE THEY RUN EVERYTHING FROM found out about DEBBIE, they were thrilled. She was perfect. She was hopeless. She was THEIR KIND OF GIRL. She was immediately chosen for the critical role of 'ARCH-TYPICAL IMAGINARY POP MUSIC CONSUMERAND ULTIMATE ARBITER OF MUSICAL TASTE FOR THE ENTIRE NATION'. From that moment on, everything musical in this country would have to be modified to conform to what they computed to be HER NEEDS & DESIRES.

DEBBIE'S 'taste' determined the size, shape and color of all musical information in the United States during the latter part of the twentieth century. Eventually she grew up to be just like her mother and married a guy just like her father. She has somehow managed to reproduce herself. The people in THE SECRET OFFICE have their eye on her daughter at this very moment.

As a SERIOUS AMERICAN COMPOSER, should DEBBIE really concern you? Because DEBBIE prefers only short songs with lyrics about boy-girl situations sung by persons of indeterminate sex, wearing S & M clothing, and because there is LARGE MONEY INVOLVED, the major record companies, which, a few years ago, occasionally risked investment in recording of new works, have all but shut down their 'classical divisions' and seldom record 'new music'. The small labels that do release it have wretched distribution. Some have wretched accounting procedures. They might release your recording, but you won't get paid.

The problem with living composers is: THEY HAVE TO EAT. Mostly what they eat is brown and lumpy. There is no question that this diet has had an effect on their work.

Just as composers in the earlier age had to accommodate the whims of KINGS, DICTATORS, and CHURCHES, composers today must write for the amusement and edification of their sinister descendants: The Guy who Figures Out What Kind of Tax Break you get from ARTS DONATIONS, The OIL, TOBACCO, or CHEMICAL COMPANY That Needs To 'Lose' a Few Million Bucks By The End of The Fiscal Year, The Five guys Who Program All the Radio Stations in The U.S., The Fanatic Fundamentalists Who Demand Bland Lyric Content and Total avoidance of Biological Reality, and The M.B.A.s Who Advise Everyone On How TO Make More Money By Praising Ignorance and Docility While Suppressing Anything Intelligent or Inventive."


And here is the link to the entire speech...

Bingo! There Goes Your Tenure! - The Full Speech

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She's a Brick House

Dylstew

What's important is that the people that like that type of artist, their niche, know about the good artist. If not, it'll be underappreciated because they don't know about it. It doesn't matter if it's fully mainstream, why would you care so much about that?
When that happens it's usually just mindless sheep/drones that like whatever they're told to like by marketing, or people that just never take the effort to look for better music, making them only listen to what's on the radio. Why would it matter what they think about the artist?

it matters if it's well known to the people that genuinely care about that type of music, at least to me. There''s a lot of Punk bands I like that are nowhere near popular compared to pop punk or mainstream music, but they're very well known by almost any punk fan so I don't really care too much about it.