Indie... I'm yet to come across anything in the genre that I really enjoy. Most of it is just boreing even safer alt rock.

The Microphones, Low, Sonic Youth, and Modest Mouse are some pretty good ones, but overall indie is too empty of a term for this thread imo. I suppose you could make the case that artists who self-identify as indie music typically make the weakest music that the "genre" has to offer.

I also think that ambient and drone are easy answers for those who don't know much about either genre because they certainly open themselves up to being incredibly boring. The best of those genres take that platform to make something interesting, which is what brings them to that status.

I'm more talking about artists like Neutral Milk Hotel and Arcade Fire. The guys you named I'd see more as alt rock groups that were instrumental in what I see as indie.

You're kind of validating my point of how pointless both indie and alternative are as genre labels.

They are extremely pointless. That's why people kind of have to come up with their own definitions.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. The way I define them, they don't have any kind of inherent sound.

Indie - music from an independent label
Alternative - music that's radio-friendly and ashamed about it

"Indie" is a useful term because it immediately brings to mind a certain sound stereotype that even casual music nerds can easily recognize. Whether or not it's a useful genre descriptor is kind of beside the point. It's not like anyone gives a legitimate **** about it as a positive label anymore.

I guess this is true for me, because when someone uses the term indie as such, it sounds like they have an ignorant view of music.

As far as I'm concerned it's all alternative, alternative being the rock movement beginning with bands like VU, Monks, the Stooges, etc, and running parallel but self-consciously different to mainstream rock, continuing through 70s art rock and proto-punk, at least the early punk bands (e.g. first wave London and CBGB's bands), then on through post-punk, college rock, grunge (and post-grunge if you're being generous I guess), etc, etc, etc. My own personal definition of alternative isn't a genre either, just the artier, outsider movement(s) that have been historically connected by direct influence.

Indie to me has lost its original meaning and just became, as you said, a word to describe the sound of Andrew Bird, Grizzly Bear, The Shins, and Leslie Feist having an orgy.