The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (country, punk, members, quote)

[riseagainstrocks]

always one with the hot button issues eh adidass?

Abortion is so sketchy, especially for a man. I will never get pregant, so I can't understand the pain and joy that haveing a child can cause a woman. That being said however, I do have an opinion on Abortion. It is wrong. The only time I see anything right with it is a) if it is a case of rape and b) the mothers life is in danger. and even then every possible option needs to be exhausted (surgery and the like).

Assisted Suicide...well, I am against it as a medical practice, but who knows. Maybe one day I'll want someone to kill me to end my pain.

[franscar]

Originally Posted by adidasss

oddly enough ( or not so odd ) my sisters are pro choice, but i get the feeling that they take it too lightly, from what i've heard, the choice is not so easy to make and it has serious psychological consequences on the woman.

i'm of the opinion that life starts at the moment of the conception. also, i'm of the opinion that people who are having sex need to be aware of the possibility that they could make a child ( no contraceptive is 100%.....except vasectomy ...snip snip....) and i think that it's the ultimate selfish act of such people to decide to have an abortion when such a thing happens.

What's selfish about abortion? Yes, what you have heard is correct, the decision to have an abortion is an incredibly difficult one for any woman to make, so I don't see how you equate it to selfishness. No woman will have an abortion without serious, serious thought and contemplation, and if the woman feels she is unable to give the child the best possible life, why make herself, the child and the father miserable just because a dusty old book tells us that abortion is "bad"?

My ex-girlfriend went through an abortion. It is a horrible, painful process. She got pregnant despite our use of contraceptives, and only became aware of the pregnancy after we had split. I am a student, and I would've had to leave my education and get a job to help pay for the child, she would've had to leave a job that she loved in a bar because of the smoke inhalation and because the pay was not enough to allow her to support a child, and as we were no longer a couple we could not give that child the life it deserved. What's so selfish about that? That we didn't allow her to go through nine months of painful pregnancy in order to give the child up for adoption at the end of it? Hell no.

Forcing, normally but not always, young girls to carry children in their wombs for nine months and then, after the trauma of labour and child birth being made to give them to someone else, I wouldn't have the arrogance to assume I could tell a woman to do that.

[Fenixpunk]

Originally Posted by adidasss

from what i've heard, the choice is not so easy to make.....

the choice is theirs to make, if you are against it, dont have one, but I dont think taking that personal choice away from another person because of your beliefs is right. By making abortions illegal, youre increasing the odds of women to go have "back-alley" abortions. I say if youre set on having an abortion, you should be able to have one and have it done in a safe enviroment by someone professionally trained to do it.

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by franscar

What's selfish about abortion? Yes, what you have heard is correct, the decision to have an abortion is an incredibly difficult one for any woman to make, so I don't see how you equate it to selfishness. No woman will have an abortion without serious, serious thought and contemplation, and if the woman feels she is unable to give the child the best possible life, why make herself, the child and the father miserable just because a dusty old book tells us that abortion is "bad"?

My ex-girlfriend went through an abortion. It is a horrible, painful process. She got pregnant despite our use of contraceptives, and only became aware of the pregnancy after we had split. I am a student, and I would've had to leave my education and get a job to help pay for the child, she would've had to leave a job that she loved in a bar because of the smoke inhalation and because the pay was not enough to allow her to support a child, and as we were no longer a couple we could not give that child the life it deserved. What's so selfish about that? That we didn't allow her to go through nine months of painful pregnancy in order to give the child up for adoption at the end of it? Hell no.

Forcing, normally but not always, young girls to carry children in their wombs for nine months and then, after the trauma of labour and child birth being made to give them to someone else, I wouldn't have the arrogance to assume I could tell a woman to do that.

well, this is why i'm not ready to judge or resent people who have gone through it, like i said, i'm a little iffy on the subject, theoretically, like i said, because of my religious background, i think abortion is wrong, it's the termination of life and as such ( again, if you're not religious this has no relevance for you ) is wrong and has it's consequences.....i think it's a selfish act because that child did not ask to be made and because the decision to end it's life is guided by selfish needs, like you said, you weren't ready to end your future prospects or the life that you were leading, saying that that child would not have had the life it deserved and therefore it was better to end it ...well....as harsh as it sounds , it's bullshit.....plenty of kids are poor and barely survive, but that condition is not permanent, it's possible to change it and to make their lives better, and i think if you ask any of them if they would like to be put to death , they would say they don't want to die just yet....i don't know if i'm making any sense here.....i don't want to make you feel any worse about what happened, and i don't exactly equate aborton with murder, but that decision was and is made according to selfish needs, the needs of the mother to be or the father to be, THEY'RE not ready for the child......i can tell you right now that happiness is not conditioned with money, i would have been perfectly happy if i was shit poor but had parents that loved me.....

Originally Posted by Fenixpunk

the choice is theirs to make, if you are against it, dont have one, but I dont think taking that personal choice away from another person because of your beliefs is right. By making abortions illegal, youre increasing the odds of women to go have "back-alley" abortions. I say if youre set on having an abortion, you should be able to have one and have it done in a safe enviroment by someone professionally trained to do it.

by all means, even if i am against it, i would never ask for the option of abortion to be abolished, women should definetly have the right to decide and do it in a safe enviroment.....

[franscar]

Originally Posted by adidasss

i think it's a selfish act because that child did not ask to be made and because the decision to end it's life is guided by selfish needs, like you said, you weren't ready to end your future prospects or the life that you were leading, saying that that child would not have had the life it deserved and therefore it was better to end it ...well....as harsh as it sounds , it's bullshit.....plenty of kids are poor and barely survive, but that condition is not permanent, it's possible to change it and to make their lives better, and i think if you ask any of them if they would like to be put to death , they would say they don't want to die just yet....i don't know if i'm making any sense here.....i don't want to make you feel any worse about what happened, and i don't exactly equate aborton with murder, but that decision was and is made according to selfish needs, the needs of the mother to be or the father to be, THEY'RE not ready for the child......i can tell you right now that happiness is not conditioned with money, i would have been perfectly happy if i was shit poor but had parents that loved me.....

No, it isn't making sense. What is the point of bringing more and more children into this already overcrowded world when the parents by their own admission are not capable of bringing them up correctly? There's already plenty of kids commiting suicide because of depression, alienation, poor upbringings and a lack of emotional connection with the people around them.

I can't understand how you can give so little weight to the thoughts and needs of the two people with the biggest responsibility to any child born into this world. And on your point about money, well lets put it like this. You never see your parents because they are always working to scrape together enough money to feed you, clothe you, and bring you toys. You think you'd be happy without that relationship?

Don't worry, you can't make me feel worse for the decision we made, because we both knew at the time it was the right decision to take. I just take issue with the use of the word selfish, especially when it isn't backed up with anything more productive than "you might not have been poor forever". The reality when you're in the situation is a lot more serious than to be clouded by might be's what if's and maybes not's.

I'm not even going to get into a debate as to the "life" of a foetus, because it will end up being bogged down in theocracy and I have no toleration for religious agendas.

[inside_out]

I'm really unsure as to where I stand when it comes to these things.

On the one hand, I guess partly beacuse of my religion and all, I believe that no one has the right to take away a life, in any situation (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this). So, I would say that abortion and assisted suicide are wrong.
But, on the other hand, I'm kinda pro-choice too, and i someone can't deal with the situations they're thrown into, and want a way out then they should take it. Although, I only believe this for abortion, because suicide is never the answer though it may seem like the only way out.

And, I also agree with what Fenix said.

[holdyoualways]

abortin is murder in my opinion. what youre doing when you get an abortion is killing another human being, another life. so its pretty much murder. and i know there are certain circumstances that will be brought up like is a woman got raped and got pregnant or bladdy blah blah. im still sticking to my choice...whatever that is.

as far as suicide goes. everybody says that suicide is cowardess and in a way it is. i used to think suicide was the stupidest thing ever until two things happened. 1)i started to think about suicide (not seriously though) and 2) a friend of mine committed suicide last year. i still think its the wrong thing to do but i guess i have a sort of empathetic view to people who do committ suicide. however, no one should under any circumstances help someone comit suicide. you should be tryign to help the person ratehr than harm them. this reminds me a lot of days of our lives...when jack wanted billie to help him comitt suicide...my sister watches it...shut up.

[sleepy jack]

I think the only time abortion should be done is if the girl is psychally incapable of having the baby..like her *OOMG* is to small cause she got raped at a really young age, but i think an alternative route would be better on that....

[inside_out]

^ Yeah, but are you realising that that's just someone elses opinion..

[IamAlejo]

Relgiously I'm against Abortion, but I think the positives of it out do the negatives (even though I personally think it's wrong).
Abortions could defenitely help out the younger population, especially in cases of rape, or more importantly younger teens who get pregnant and a majority of the time ARE NOT ready to handle the kid. The kid gets raised up in a ****ty lifestyle and then the cycle seems to always repeat itself. It lets the parent decide on their own whether they deem themself ready or not, and could probably help society in a majority of ways.

And I am for assisted suicide but only with the patient having a disease that is life-threatening. I think it's pointless to go through the pain knowing that it is only buying you days to live and you have already believed you've done enough with youre life and are ready to go.