The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (quote)

[Barnard17]

Originally Posted by holdfasthope

http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...1/i3/horse.asp

That website is like a Republican convention. They strip things down to the most minimal facts, and then take them off in nonsensical directions. On the plus side, saying "you're ignorant" is a much funnier rebuttal than saying "you hate America".

[davidMC1982]

There seems to be a heck of a lot of confusion here, especially regarding scientific fact/theory.

Lets start with the first one, gravity. Contrary to popular belief, Newtons theory of gravitation was disproven (or more accurately, extended) by Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. Newton stated that two masses attract (and to all intents and purposes they do). The problem comes when you see that light is bent by gravity, Einstein managed to explain this.

Secondly, the existence of atoms (protons, neutrons and electrons) was proven a long time ago. In fact, the existence of other particles has already been proven (photons, bosons, quarks etc). The only so called "messenger particle" we have yet to detect is the one responsible for gravitation. This is no surprise, since gravity is the weakest force of them all.

Thirdly, Scientists can accurately model the universe from its present state, back to the first few nanoseconds of the universe. Here, things start to get very strange (in the same way that physics inside a black hole do not work).

Fourthly, evolution is a proven fact, you can even demonstrate it in your own home. What has yet to be proven, is how our decendants arrived here, for which there are many theories.

Finally, creationism is flawed from the start (certainly the bibles version of). In fact, most Christians would accept that Genesis is just a representation of "facts unknown". Just like every book, it needs a starting point. With the level of knowledge available at the time, creationism seemed like the logical answer.

Dave

[holdfasthope]

Originally Posted by davidMC1982

Fourthly, evolution is a proven fact, you can even demonstrate it in your own home. What has yet to be proven, is how our decendants arrived here, for which there are many theories.

Finally, creationism is flawed from the start (certainly the bibles version of). In fact, most Christians would accept that Genesis is just a representation of "facts unknown". Just like every book, it needs a starting point. With the level of knowledge available at the time, creationism seemed like the logical answer.
Dave

Originally Posted by davidMC1982

Fourthly, evolution is a proven fact,

seriously, i'm speachless. Where do you get educated? EVOLUTION IS NOT PROVEN. IT IS NOT FACT. IT IS A THOERY WITH MANY HOLES. IT IS NOT FACT.

far out, it is impossible to debate with someone, when they cant admit what is blatantly obvious. Go ask any credible scientist if evolution is proven fact. My god, people, i now remember why i left these boards.

[Barnard17]

Originally Posted by holdfasthope

i now remember why i left these boards.

Maybe because you're arrogant, ignorant, narcisstic and denialistic.

[right-track]

Originally Posted by Fal

Maybe because you're arrogant, ignorant, narcisstic and denialistic.

^ An argument starter if ever I saw one.

Good debate so far...keep it clean guys.

[davidMC1982]

Originally Posted by holdfasthope

seriously, i'm speachless. Where do you get educated? EVOLUTION IS NOT PROVEN. IT IS NOT FACT. IT IS A THOERY WITH MANY HOLES. IT IS NOT FACT.

far out, it is impossible to debate with someone, when they cant admit what is blatantly obvious. Go ask any credible scientist if evolution is proven fact. My god, people, i now remember why i left these boards.

Evolution is a proven fact. It may not be proven that humans decended from x, y, or z species, but it is proven that they have evolved. In fact, we can quite accurately trace our evolution back to pre-historic man, something far removed from what we are today. Since we are now the dominant species, this evolution has slowed down considerably.

You can even prove the theory of evolution in your own home. Farmers use the theory everyday. Those who "create" new species of flowers use the same principal. The theory itself is sound. The mechanics of it (the hows so to speak) are still a work in progress, but only to the same extent that the theory of gravity is a work in progress.

The problem you find with creationism, is that it requires a giant leap of faith. The more we find out about the way the universe works, the more evidence we have disproving creationism (particularly as depicted in the bible). The theory, that an omnipotent being created everything, is a valid theory, but only when taken out of the bounds of religion (Adam and Eve), and into the realms of science (discussing the level of 'design' that surrounds us). However, that indication of design in no way proves the creationism theory. It can equally well be applied to the theory of evolution. Creationism has not a single bit of evidence that would suggest it to be true. There is plenty of evidence that suggests evolution, or a similar concept thereof, to be a valid theory describing our origins.

The difference between the two sides of the argument is plain to see. We have one group who require evidence, logic and science before something is accepted as fact. We have the other group who are willing to make a leap of faith, who simply "believe" things to be true.

One final point. Somone mention the odds of us being here (something about a tornado through a junk yard creating an airplane). It is estimated there is something of the order of 10^22 stars in the universe (10000000000000000000000). Surely it is highly unlikely we are the only life giving planet! Surely the right circumstances to support life just happened to occur more than once, with all those tries to get it right? When people quote statistics regarding the likelyhood of something occuring in the universe, they seem to forget the sheer size of the universe.

Dave

[cardboard adolescent]

What the hell kind of God would create .... us? We're an infestation of ignorant assholes polluting the planet with our filth and bad taste in music.

I'm surprised he hasn't tried to flood us again. Or maybe he killed himself.

[mosesandtherubberducky]

I still haven't seen one of those heart-felt stupids. I'm waiting guys. Who ever does it I'll send them my porn collection (and I've got a lot). So lets get the stupids rolling.

[bungalow]

Originally Posted by holdfasthope

seriously, i'm speachless. Where do you get educated? EVOLUTION IS NOT PROVEN. IT IS NOT FACT. IT IS A THOERY WITH MANY HOLES. IT IS NOT FACT.

far out, it is impossible to debate with someone, when they cant admit what is blatantly obvious. Go ask any credible scientist if evolution is proven fact. My god, people, i now remember why i left these boards.

Leave them again, please.
You tell us it is blatantly obvious that evolution is not proven fact?

Let me quote National Geographic November 2004, written by David Quammen: Was Darwin Wrong?

Was Darwin Wrong?

No, the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
Evolution by Natural Selection, as outlined by Charles Darwin, is a theory. It is a theory about the origin of adaptation, complexity, and diversity among earth's creatures. If you are skeptical by nature, unfamiliar with the terminology of science, and unaware of the overwhelming evidence, you may be tempted to call it just a theory. In the same sense that Relativity, as described by Einstein is a theory. The existence, structure, and dynamincs of Atoms? Atomic theory. Continental Drift, is a theory. Each of these theories is an explanation that has been confirmed to such a degree, by observation and experiment, that knowledgeable experts accept them as fact. That is what scientist mean when the use the word theory: not some dreamy and unrealistic speculation, but an explanatory statement that fits evidence.So why are there so many antievolutinists? Honest confusion and inorance, among millions of adults, may still be another reason. No one needs to, and no one should, take evolution as a matter of faith.

I would love for you, holdfasthope, to outline some of the many flaws in his theory. There are none.

[right-track]

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

What the hell kind of God would create .... us? We're an infestation of ignorant assholes polluting the planet with our filth and bad taste in music.

Check out Gnostic belief...