The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (track, quote, memory)

[TheBig3]

Hey fi you want to see one of the better political rants I've seen in awhile, Google Keith Olbermann's commentary on teh state of the union address in 2007 (for 2006).

Whoever puts together his telecasts is a brilliant person.

[Frances]

"The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your ****ing mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions." Frank Zappa.

[TheUsedToolguy]

U ever wonder why a lot of preachers don't seem like very good people. Well they're not. A lot of organized religion is big business. If u want to read an eye-opening perspective on Christianity read 'You Are Being Lied To' by Noam Chomsky and other alt. media writers. It looks in a very factual way at how to break down a lot of the myths you read in the bible.

[DontRunMeOver]

Originally Posted by Frances

"The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your ****ing mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions." Frank Zappa.

Ooooh, nice quote.

I'd take the Garden of Eden idea as being a metaphor for when humans started to really manipulate their environment, build permanent shelters, farm and eventually form civilisations. One result (of the many results) of these human developments is the emergence of organised warfare, more effective weapons etc. which are bad side-effects of human ingenuity. There are a lot of other bad effects of human developments, many of which weren't even around when the bible was written.

So, if you look at human advancements from one direction only it looks like they are the cause of most of our troubles. We left the innocence and simplicity of the natural 'garden', the state in which we ate what we found and slept wherever seemed comfortable enough and instead decided to take on the world, to try to understand and then manipulate what we found rather than just accepting everything as it was.

Looking at it from the other side, the fact that most people (even in the 3rd world and despite massive population increase) aren't living in a permanent state of near starvation (poor nutrion, yes, but not starvation mostly), nor all dying of hypothermia during the winter, suggests that even at the basic level, leaving the Garden of Eden was a pretty good idea... because had not developed our technology we'd be spending all day looking for berries, hunting animals, gathering wood and getting rained on while trying to hide beneath trees, just to delay our demise for one more week.

Anyway, apples taste nice. And every time you eat one you're sticking your finger up at God.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by TheUsedToolguy

U ever wonder why a lot of preachers don't seem like very good people. Well they're not. A lot of organized religion is big business. If u want to read an eye-opening perspective on Christianity read 'You Are Being Lied To' by Noam Chomsky and other alt. media writers. It looks in a very factual way at how to break down a lot of the myths you read in the bible.

well i kind-off figured when the catholic church told people they'll burn in hell if they don't donate.

Or scientology?
it costs 3,000 dollars to get to level e-4 or whatever, and by the end of the course your supposed to move objects with your mind. And if you haven't accomplished this task, they ask for another 3,000 to take it again.

[TheUsedToolguy]

Originally Posted by matious

well i kind-off figured when the catholic church told people they'll burn in hell if they don't donate.

Or scientology?
it costs 3,000 dollars to get to level e-4 or whatever, and by the end of the course your supposed to move objects with your mind. And if you haven't accomplished this task, they ask for another 3,000 to take it again.

Yeah, but think, 1 day u might actually hav the intellectual capacity of Tom Cruise, LOL (Loser of Life)

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by TheUsedToolguy

U ever wonder why a lot of preachers don't seem like very good people. Well they're not. A lot of organized religion is big business. If u want to read an eye-opening perspective on Christianity read 'You Are Being Lied To' by Noam Chomsky and other alt. media writers. It looks in a very factual way at how to break down a lot of the myths you read in the bible.

Basing your entire idea of preachers or pastors on the actions of a select few is ignorant. I agree that some organized religion has grown to be a business, rather than a way to practice your faith, and that saddens me, but for every snake oiler out there, there are a dozen good, honest men of god who want nothing more than to spread the gospel. I've been to small country churches and also huge congregations of several hundred member and I personally prefer the small, close-knit churches myself, but thats not to say that there is something wrong with a church having a large congregation. The more people that hear the word of God, the better. And while there are alot of scam artists out there, most pastors/churches are not. Taking up an offering is essential for most churches. It keeps the lights on, pays the gas bill, and (in the churches I've attended) goes to help less fortunate families or those starving oversas




Edit: shout out to ya for reppin MO boi. We gotsta represent.

[TheUsedToolguy]

oojay doing the organized religion thing, huh?
hey man, I'll be praying for ya, but not in a church
actually I wouldn't mind going to church, maybe it's a lot different where u are, but I can honestly say that around here, pretty much every church I go to, there is a pastor that gets up and tells u how to live your life. I would love to go to a simple praise service, but the one I have in town here for some reason has people working there full time. That's bcuz some churches receive thousands and thousands of dollars every week in donations and charity. If I'm being too judgmental by questioning someone's ethics who sits around in a church all day fielding phone calls for how much $ someone wants to send them (what else would they be doing, working @ church), then maybe I should repent, and trust me, I don't go to church for that either. I'm a very spiritual person who believes in God, and feels very comfortable worshipping him from the confines of my own home, and where ever he takes me throughout the course of my day, without having some preacher send me out on a guilt trip, when I feel like I'm a pretty honest, decent person to begin w/. If you fear the wrath of God, so much that's understandable, but don't get it twisted w/ the authorities in your community wanting to strike fear into you. That's how I view a lot of organized religion. The pastor basically makes himself out to be God. It's so sad that we've become so immoral we have to resort to fear tactics to get people to come to church, and even more sad that people buy into that brainwashing propaganda. Admit it, anyone who goes to church, you fear the judgments of the people in your own community for not going to church more than you fear the wrath of God. Again, this may not be true where you live, but would certainly be true for my area of the U.S.-the midwest. (I.E.-bible belt)

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by TheUsedToolguy

oojay doing the organized religion thing, huh?
hey man, I'll be praying for ya, but not in a church

I agree that going to church is not necessary to be a christian (and I use that religion as an example because it is my own religion), but I find that being around people with similar beliefs only instills those beliefs in me more so and helps me to live by them. But to each his own.

[tdoc210]

religion shows a lack of intelligence