A question to vegetarians

Stephen · 06-30-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

If you met someone who eats dogs and cats, would you feel judgemental or would you just shrug and say, "Meh, to each her own?"

And if you *are* judgemental of people who eat dogs and cats, then why wouldn't you expect vegetarians to be judgemental of meat-eaters who eat other animal species, such as cows, pigs, and chickens?

If someone eats an animal who has died of natural causes, I wouldn't feel judgemental because the person didn't orchestrate that animal's death. However, when someone supports the killing of animals, especially when there are healthful ways to live without doing so, then I'm more likely to feel judgemental (even of myself).

Being free from critique and judgement certainly feels nice, and judgementalism *can* lead to horrible situations (when those who are judgemental decide to physically hurt people with whom they disagree), but judgementalism has also helped reduce or end numerous atrocities (slavery, child labor, capital punishment, etc.), and so I don't consider judgementalism to be a foe. Passing judgement on an action can be an inspiration for change.

And frankly, in my opinion eating animals is a lot worse than being judgemental.

An intelligent, articulate argument. How refreshing.

Howard the Duck · 07-01-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

If you met someone who eats dogs and cats, would you feel judgemental or would you just shrug and say, "Meh, to each her own?"

And if you *are* judgemental of people who eat dogs and cats, then why wouldn't you expect vegetarians to be judgemental of meat-eaters who eat other animal species, such as cows, pigs, and chickens?

If someone eats an animal who has died of natural causes, I wouldn't feel judgemental because the person didn't orchestrate that animal's death. However, when someone supports the killing of animals, especially when there are healthful ways to live without doing so, then I'm more likely to feel judgemental (even of myself).

Being free from critique and judgement certainly feels nice, and judgementalism *can* lead to horrible situations (when those who are judgemental decide to physically hurt people with whom they disagree), but judgementalism has also helped reduce or end numerous atrocities (slavery, child labor, capital punishment, etc.), and so I don't consider judgementalism to be a foe. Passing judgement on an action can be an inspiration for change.

And frankly, in my opinion eating animals is a lot worse than being judgemental.

in my opinion, you only base it on awareness and feelings, which to me, are on a lower level of evolutional development of the brain

as long as any animal does not have the ability to view itself objectively, rather than going through the mechanics of life, and possess a "consciousness" as we do, i think it's fine to eat them

Paedantic Basterd · 07-01-2011, 07:32 PM

How are feelings a lower evolutionary development when... we're the only ones who have developed them to this extent?

Howard the Duck · 07-01-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

How are feelings a lower evolutionary development when... we're the only ones who have developed them to this extent?

animals might still evolve

when they get somewhat a consciousness and an objective sense, i'd campaign for no killing of animals

that's the theory anyway

Paedantic Basterd · 07-01-2011, 07:36 PM

Yeah, that didn't answer my question at all. We're the only species to have developed such a complex system of emotions. If we're the paradigm, then how is this development a "lesser" aspect of life?

Howard the Duck · 07-01-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Yeah, that didn't answer my question at all. We're the only species to have developed such a complex system of emotions. If we're the paradigm, then how is this development a "lesser" aspect of life?

oh I was referring to VEGANGELICA's usage of "feelings" in animal sense, as in "sensations of pain"

i'm not talking about "emotions"

i meant "sensations of pain" are a lower level of evolutionary develoment

Paedantic Basterd · 07-01-2011, 07:42 PM

I was under the impression you meant it was based on her feelings, hence the misunderstanding.

Pain isn't a lesser development. It's actually very important to the preservation of our bodies. Research CIPA. Not having any sensation of pain brings about a host of real life complications and actually puts you at severe risk. Pain is the sensation that tells our minds "stop doing that, it's bad".

Howard the Duck · 07-01-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I was under the impression you meant it was based on her feelings, hence the misunderstanding.

Pain isn't a lesser development. It's actually very important to the preservation of our bodies. Research CIPA. Not having any sensation of pain brings about a host of real life complications and actually puts you at severe risk. Pain is the sensation that tells our minds "stop doing that, it's bad".

it's still a basic survival defense

only because we are so clever, we use it to detect medical ailments

Paedantic Basterd · 07-01-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

it's still a basic survival defense

only because we are so clever, we use it to detect medical ailments

Patients with CIPA are at severe risk of anything from infection to brain damage. Not feeling the pain does not mean you have not been injured. You may have a wound, broken bone, or concussion that needs immediate medical attention, and not know it. CIPA patients regularly have to check their bodies for injury, from scrapes to burns to biting their tongues off in their sleep. I am getting the impression that you think we should develop immortality, rather than insensitivity to pain.

Howard the Duck · 07-02-2011, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Patients with CIPA are at severe risk of anything from infection to brain damage. Not feeling the pain does not mean you have not been injured. You may have a wound, broken bone, or concussion that needs immediate medical attention, and not know it. CIPA patients regularly have to check their bodies for injury, from scrapes to burns to biting their tongues off in their sleep. I am getting the impression that you think we should develop immortality, rather than insensitivity to pain.

i meant the basic element of pain is not a highly evolved trait

of course CIPA patients are having a medical ailment, in that they can't feel pain, it doesn't mean they're less evolved or more evolved

i mean the sensation itself is available to the most basic of animals

i think you're misunderstanding me

other interesting, maybe pertinent points, raised by some other posters on a more or less similar discussion:-

one said cows are basically pretty stupid animals, if you look into their eyes, it's like staring into a black hole, cows are just a mass source of meat for predators, and Native Americans used to drive droves of buffaloes and cattle off cliffs like lemmings

another said not only is eating meat questionable, the idea of domesticating animals as pets is questionable - it's creepy to get a pet and then train them to "human" habits, when obviously this is against the animalistic traits, like chewing on the rug, crapping on floors - then when you adopt a puppy and it can't be housetrained, you return it to the pet store

07-01-2011, 07:32 PM	#603 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	How are feelings a lower evolutionary development when... we're the only ones who have developed them to this extent?

07-01-2011, 07:36 PM	#605 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	Yeah, that didn't answer my question at all. We're the only species to have developed such a complex system of emotions. If we're the paradigm, then how is this development a "lesser" aspect of life?

07-01-2011, 07:42 PM	#607 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I was under the impression you meant it was based on her feelings, hence the misunderstanding. Pain isn't a lesser development. It's actually very important to the preservation of our bodies. Research CIPA. Not having any sensation of pain brings about a host of real life complications and actually puts you at severe risk. Pain is the sensation that tells our minds "stop doing that, it's bad".