if by "bitchier" you mean fun, then yeah i'd have to agree with that sentiment.

Trust me it was flame central. I loved it, and miss it to be honest. But everything here has to be PC now so oh well. It wouldn't be as boring if there was some more fire and passion in the threads.

we aren't anti-passion. If we didn't do what we did as mods the only passion here would be the gamesmanship of one-liners.

Oh Big3 I was not indicating you guys dimmed the passion its about the members needing to step up. I do too.

I'm perfectly fine with MB being more strict now, this forum used to be loaded with people who were impossible to have a friendly discussion with.

I believe quality is not an anathema of profit. So I find strictness reassuring.

I've just read this thread through from start to finish, and from what I've seen and experienced in my first 24 hours on here is entirely positive. There is a wide ranging knowledge base, opinions get bantered about with very little hostility, and the place is well organised.
As for it dying, then all I have to say is that if this place is dying, then it must have been surreally busy at some point.
As for the frontpage blog idea, I can see the value of it, but I would imagine that the sheer volume of potential reviews would make it unreadable, and I'm sure the admin have better things to do with their free time than to read and critique endless reviews from amateur writers? I know that most fans of particular bands would love to see their views on their heroes aired in public, it's only human nature to want your voice to be heard, but if that resulted in it getting drowned out by the crowd then surely it's not going to work well.

Actually, the last time I looked at site statistics, it looked as if the amount of activity - posts written each day - has only increased with time .. so lack of activity shouldn't be the problem.

My guess is that although there are things to improve on, I think some people also get a bit tired of the site after a while (f.ex X amount of years).

Such is the only reason I get a bit bored of this place once in a while - as I said earlier in the thread, for me it's nothing to do with any limitations this site has, just human nature. I find I usually get my sense of enthusiasm back after a a few days' break as well.

I get bored too and I've only been here a fragment of the time many of you vets have been around, so I can totally understand. Since I came here, november 2008, I have to say I think the general worth and quality of the site has only increased, though.

Okay in the past week have we not seen a major increase in participation and good threads? Keep it up my homies. :D

The problem with this forum is, there seems to be quite a few lurkers every time I log on, but new posts are so sparse.

One problem that I have hit on here is the sheer bulk of some threads. Perhaps it may be an idea to cut off threads at a certain point to save reading through repetative posts? Its something we use on a forum I'm involved with, there is no fixed page or post limit, but when a natural break occurs - say when thread drift kicks in, repetition becomes endemic, or - on list threads - a certain number of posts is hit, then a new thread is created to make life easier for members to follow.

I dont think MB is going down hill, for that part, but Ive noticed that if your genre & style of music doesnt fit the criteria of the MB forums, then you wont get very much positive response, if you mention bands from the grunge era, for instance, or usually a mainstream band, then most replies are negative ones, this in part, from my point of view, causes alot of newbes not to post at all, if I dont have anything good to say about it, then I dont say anything at all, but this is a music forum open for debate & personal opinions so....long live MB! (Beauty is in the eyes/ears of the beholder)

I felt the same way when I joined here, I felt a lot of negative engery about certain guitar players and bands, so I don't participate as much or what-not. I thought it be better just to reply then make threads, I thought it would be better to contribute to threads, at least it makes MB seem active.

Though there are certain bands that will always get a pretty negative response, I think if someone can back up their opinions with something discussion worthy then it all works out. This is a forum with a pretty high standard for content, so coming in and saying "Limp Bizkit ****ing rocks" is really not enough.

All of this 'people that like rubbish bands' thing is a red herring anyway.

Like Duga says if you back up your opinions instead of throwing your toys out of the pram or start being abusive you won't get picked on.

I happen to like Kiss
Nobody on this forum has ever given me shit for it. even when I first joined when this place was a lot more hostile than it is now.

What about boo boo admitting he likes The Bay City Rollers?
Surely he shouldn't be able to get away with that without a solid raggin'.

I love KISS...just saying.

In theory that is true, but I don't know, eg I thought Eric Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughn were respectable guitarist to everyone. I am, for the most part, objective about the artist/musicians I like, and I know they're not perfect music-wise for everyone, and I'm objective about what the opinions I read. But I'm more pessimistic, I think it's better to drop a discussion because even though it might be interesting on my part to conitue it. I never know how another person will takes his opinion being rebutted even though I'm postive stance and he is taken a negative stance on an artist/musician/band.

Really? Was I here around that time? I seem to remember it being harsher when I first joined in 08. I hated it, and I didn't post for a while. I came back and I think I either just grew up and dealt with other people's opinions better or people just stopped being so harsh.

I'll stick to shouting my love of obscure, one release before vanishing ska bands. That way if anyone critiques me on them they'll either show up their ignorance of the genre or they'll have to do some serious digging to have a listen....

Think of me as a one man obscure ska publicity machine. No one else seems to give a damn about it ;)

What's you favorite ska band? I could use some ska actually, I'm severely lacking.

I don't really use Musicbanter for discussing music anymore because whenever I check on the latest discussions, there's almost never anything about the stuff I personally care about. Although I still consider myself young (not even 30!), my tastes are perhaps a bit old compared to most and I don't think many here are passionate about the same music I am passionate about. Or maybe people are, but those topics just don't come up as often?

Anyways, I feel like I've been getting less and less from MusicBanter as a place to discuss music. Most of my posts lately seem to be about diets, scientific topics, politics and the like.

I hope you guys won't interpret this as a mere "whine"! Musicbanter as a place to discuss philosophy and so on is still interesting enough for me to hang around. I'm just wondering if someone else feels the same? Aside from review threads, there's little of what I think of as real discussions on music. F.ex posting about the size of your media library is not, I think. Neither are threads where people just post youtube videos or post about their latest album aquisition.

So, is it just me?

No. I'm with you, but you're fighting against human nature (of allo the people who would...tore?).

Its not easy to post comprehensive writeups in the face of simple youtube postings.

Its not always easy to put words to emotions, its why we pay for books. If we could all do it, we would.

And the biggest deterent I feel is that when someone goes and puts in the effort to have a slightly elevated discussion about some of the concepts and portions of the music we enjoy, its often times looked over, dismissed, or ignored.

The only thing worse is when it is ignored, and then some slapped up opinion we've read before follows it and is quoted and commented on to no end. Laziness is the bottom rung, and people love to drag down into the doldrums anyone around them. There are strength in numbers, and there is ease in sloth.

Thats my 2 cents. Also, Bob Dylan feels the same:

While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in

I've felt this way about MB for quite a long time.
As I've said before, the old place needs a new dimension.

I've noticed that a few discography reviews have risen out of nowhere lately (mine included), and I think that's quite positive.
Initially, there seems to be quite a bit of support for this kind of thing. Later on, though, people seem to fall back into "reader mode", without taking advantage of their comment and discussion creating priviledges.
Now, I'm not complaining at all, I myself have little posts and am absolutely guilty of what I just stated (I've also received a fair amount of comments review thread-wise, so whining about this really wouldn't suit me), it's just an observation.
I'm not sure what can be done, but I'll strive to post more in each subforum.

Hmm, Tore, I find niches within MusicBanter where I feel there is a nice mix of write-ups and Youtube videos (which I actually find very helpful, since then I can listen to the songs without leaving the thread).

For example, one of my favorite threads is the Ex-Yugoslavian music thread: http://www.musicbanter.com/country-f...tml#post814896
This thread has given me a chance to learn about the overlap between music and history/politics, plus learn about some bands new to me that I enjoy, and about the Ex-Yugoslavian music scene.

And hey...your yodeling thread is still active! ;)

What would you *like* to be discussing here that you find yourself not discussing?

People are so dramatic on message boards. It's not that dramatic. It's just a place to discuss interests... it's beyond me why the forum lots always become so cultish!

it's because those type of discussions require legitimate effort for no tangible reward and we live in a culture of laziness.

your 'new american songbook' thread is a great idea, took me a good 20 minutes of contemplation to pull out a short list from my youth (i'd cut half of it after reconsidering). it took you almost a week to post a 2nd time in it and haven't really said much. it's kind of hard to want to keep adding to it if the innovator can't be bothered to actually participate in their own thread.

Half the threads around here have posters we haven't seen in years. Whats the OP got to do with the quality of posts in a thread?

Edit: By the by, I've got a Tom Waits discography I have barely touched and have been dipping back into some other music (which is why I've been knee deep in the TOOL thread lately). I've never mined one vein with music, I don't think asking posters to be beholden to a thread is a healthy thing.

yeah sorry i was a bit harsh earlier.

i'm not saying people should babysit their own threads, that gets insane quickly, it's what mods are for. but at the same time if you're going to go to the trouble of laying down the groundwork for a thread that requires significant thought and effort to participate in, it seems kind of halfhearted to just stand by the wayside after creating it.

The problem with fairly subjective topics like music is that they offer only so much room for discussion. You can attempt to put your passion for it into words and hope that anyone reading can translate it back again and strongly agree/disagree given that it applies to them. And if your niche is older music, that eliminates a lot of prospective topics such as anticipation of upcoming albums/concerts and band news etc. If you then account for the fact that in many cases, average modern albums are more likely to garner interest/discussion than good albums from the past (sacred cows excluded) and then account for the fact that people are time-constrained/lazy or feel what they have to say is inadequate, it becomes apparent why these threads aren't too busy. I think it comes down to the fact that serious music discussion with its pre-requisites demands a great time input.

I agree that youtube, media library, last.fm and latest album acquisition threads are the more petty spammy ones which don't tend to constitute real discussion. I'm guilty of posting in those threads more than I should, especially when I have a latent KC review thread waiting for me. I'm putting off doing any reviews until the hols though.

I realise that this post came out sounding somewhat negative, but I don't mean it to be.

Is pretty much what I do and what I'm going to be doing...minus the KC bit obviously!

For reasons I'll keep to myself, my life in general's become a lot busier this last week or two, so I don't really have as much time as I once did to about updating any threads I've got going (like the Leonard Cohen and Talk Talk ones), putting enough research and thought into any new artist threads I might usually start besides a sentence or two or take part in any of the hot musical debates that are going. All that'll change when my hols start soon enough though.

And in saying that, I don't really remember MB being much different than it is now since I've been here. As I think I've said somewhere in this thread before, it's only gotten as stale as anything else I'm this familiar with, ie not very in my opinion.

It seems a significant portion of the people I have musical interests in common with have left the forums and they're not being replaced with new regulars. As an example, I would like to put some effort into making a Canterbury thread, but I fear it wouldn't generate much interest at all. That doesn't have to be because of lazyness, it's just a niche category with a relatively few amount of followers. We can't all like the same thing .. There used to be people here who would get excited about such a thread, but most of them disappeared.

If all of us disappear, then I think that's quite sad because then there will be no discussions here on stuff like Canterbury that will appeal to newcomers who like that sort of stuff and musicbanter is one more step closer to becoming a more homogenized mix where everyone likes the same stuff. With the roots of a subcommunity gone, it's hard to build it up again later on.

I'd like to stress that I think this is just an observation on my part. It's not like I blame you guys for not liking the same stuff I do, nor do I blame people for leaving, so please don't interpret this as criticism towards the community or any of you in particular! In essence, change is inevitable and nothing lasts forever .. And although I personally don't like some of the trends that have taken place since I came, I'll try to put some effort into new threads now and then even if they're doomed. ;)

I've never really taken part in many of the underground-ier sections of MB. I don't really go into the Punk section or its sub-forums, I never do any of the electronica stuff, and while I like Indie, going into that section makes my skin crawl so I avoid it like the devil. I say this because it might be different there but...

I feel as if when people remember the good old days they remember brutal in fighting and mean and slightly humerous personal attacks. take this how you'd like but those are squashed before they even erupt these days. Maybe fighting drives people off, who knows.

The boards aren't dying they are just running slower. Good posts are made, but good posts aren't encouraged. I would say, if you want to solve the supposed issue of disinterest, when you see a post you thought was insightful, quote it, respond to it, and challenge the other persons position. Make them explain it.

I just find discussion comes in waves. There will be a week or two where this forum gets tons of great participation, even from new members (who usually end up leaving). Then there are dry spells where nothing really worthwhile gets posted. I don't mind, it's still an entertaining place to post. I still find great new music I would never otherwise find. My own participation has dropped in the past couple weeks just because of my new job...and I don't have the net at home atm (which will change in a couple months).

I do feel the frustration of trying to prompt a discussion and it doesn't happen. In my own review thread, I try to mention quite a bit that I want people discuss the band. Maybe Rush isn't as popular as I thought they were. Anyways, it happens.

Keep in mind the summer is always a dry season.

I've been here at MB since 07 and I think it has come a long way since then.
The main thing that I have noticed that is for the better, is allowing the younger generation to verse their own opinions about who/what they like to listen to.
To me, MB seems like they want to aquire a music forum where younger people are able to speak they're mind without being attacked or criticized.
If your not drawing in the younger crowd (which in my opinion only), should be a priority, a music forum could turn into an 'old folks home' with maby 4 or 5 (older) active members that post.
Young people can be very high strung, and sound insulting with posts at times, while not really meaning to.
But hey, we were all young once and I knew everything about everything also.
We need the youth of the nation! ;)

I know where you're coming from, as I certainly get the feeling that I don't exactly see eye-to-eye with a lot of people in a musical taste sense here myself. I don't really think I ever have, and that's not me trying to be a hipster or anything, but more a way of saying that I guess it depends how you use this place. I personally only use MB as a place to bring up music in a way that real life doesn't let me, seeing as it's very hard to find people who don't use music forums who have even slightly similar tastes to me. As far as that goes, I don't think this place will ever exhaust itself with me...at least as long as I keep feeling as passionate about music as I do. I do agree that it's definitely a pain in the arse if you wanna educate people around here though.

Yeah, I get that feeling too, and I do remember it vaguely. I did join up around the time there was still the odd bit of that going on, back when Cobe Kai came here and Lucifer Sam would, frankly, have a tendency to act like a bit of a prick, and so on. I guess those things do liven up the boards and so on but, the fact is, there aren't even a lot of particularly abrasive people joining MB these days. About 99% of the posts I delete and bannings I give out are just for people who can't read the rules spamming some crap or other.

In that sense, yeah, I guess it a bit quieter these days, but even in its quieter moments MB is a much, much more active message board than a lot that I've ever seen. For example, I used to be a member of David Bowie's official fan board, which requires a paid subscription, and even that was dead compared to here. I got the feeling people only really post there in the that hope the man himself reads and replies to one of their posts.