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View Poll Results: Do you agree with the war in Iraq?
Yes 6 13.64%
No 38 86.36%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-21-2005, 05:36 PM   #161 (permalink)
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ok, saying things were better under sadam's regime was a stupid thing to say, i was merely rewording adidass' 'that sort of thing didn't happen under his iron fist'. as in better than the apsolute mess it finds itself in now i.e people on all sides dying.
Nor do i condone any violent means. Given the right time? care to put a frame on it?
Sure a government even federal can be established, but the problem of innocent iraqis dying by the hands of other iraqi's is not going to go away. hence my comparison to the ira (800 years after invasion and now some form of political peace might be on the horison). and in the height of it innocent irish people died at the hands of their same country men.

im not looking for an argument adidass, i just thought saying 'they can't take care of themselves' a bit of an odd statement. I am fully aware of the shia and sunni divide but they didn't cause the anarchy that exists now...removing order and insufficiently upholding it did. thats all. peace out gnome sayin?
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Old 08-21-2005, 05:50 PM   #162 (permalink)
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argumets can be interesting when they involve inteligent and mature people and when they don't involve insults, so i don't see why you wouldn't be looking for one in this thread, i think it's a very interesting subject.....
my statement may have been hasty, but i just don't understand why they're killing each other.....
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Old 08-21-2005, 06:21 PM   #163 (permalink)
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http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqpretend.html
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:13 AM   #164 (permalink)
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"The Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned during the transition due to end in four months, according to U.S. officials in Washington and Baghdad.

The United States no longer expects to see a model new democracy, a self-supporting oil industry or a society in which the majority of people are free from serious security or economic challenges, U.S. officials say.


The ferocious debate over a new constitution has particularly driven home the gap between the original U.S. goals and the realities after almost 28 months. The U.S. decision to invade Iraq was justified in part by the goal of establishing a secular and modern Iraq that honors human rights and unites disparate ethnic and religious communities.
But whatever the outcome on specific disputes, the document on which Iraq's future is to be built will require laws to be compliant with Islam. Kurds and Shiites are expecting de facto long-term political privileges. And women's rights will not be as firmly entrenched as Washington has tried to insist, U.S. officials and Iraq analysts say.

"We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic," said another U.S. official familiar with policymaking from the beginning, who like some others interviewed would speak candidly only on the condition of anonymity. "That process is being repeated all over."

On security, the administration originally expected the U.S.-led coalition to be welcomed with rice and rosewater, traditional Arab greetings, with only a limited reaction from loyalists of ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. The surprising scope of the insurgency and influx of foreign fighters has forced Washington to repeatedly lower expectations -- about the time-frame for quelling the insurgency and creating an effective and cohesive Iraqi force capable of stepping in, U.S. officials said.

Killings of members of the Iraqi security force have tripled since January. Iraq's ministry of health estimates that bombings and other attacks have killed 4,000 civilians in Baghdad since Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari's interim government took office April 28.

Last week was the fourth-worst week of the whole war for U.S. military deaths in combat, and August already is the worst month for deaths of members of the National Guard and Reserve.

Attacks on U.S. convoys by insurgents using roadside bombs have doubled over the past year, Army Brig. Gen. Yves Fontaine said Friday. Convoys ferrying food, fuel, water, arms and equipment from Kuwait, Jordan and Turkey are attacked about 30 times a week, Fontaine said.

"There has been a realistic reassessment of what it is possible to achieve in the short term and fashion a partial exit strategy," Yaphe said. "This change is dictated not just by events on the ground but by unrealistic expectations at the start."

Washington now does not expect to fully defeat the insurgency before departing, but instead to diminish it, officials and analysts said. There is also growing talk of turning over security responsibilities to the Iraqi forces even if they are not fully up to original U.S. expectations, in part because they have local legitimacy that U.S. troops often do not.

"We've said we won't leave a day before it's necessary. But necessary is the key word -- necessary for them or for us? When we finally depart, it will probably be for us," a U.S. official said."

source - washingtonpost.com

comment: the last bubble is bursting.....
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:17 AM   #165 (permalink)
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^holy crap what an essay
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:46 AM   #166 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkaba
^holy crap what an essay
An essay? He wrote one line. That was a newspaper article.


And don't know about the last bubble bursting. That must be a big ass bubble. I doubt we will be out within the next year. But if we are, I'll be happily surprised. I believe we'll get to a next President who rallies behind "getting the troops out of Iraq" and then does so before Bush does it.
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Old 08-23-2005, 07:27 AM   #167 (permalink)
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will they be out before being in iran?
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:52 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAlejo
An essay? He wrote one line. That was a newspaper article.


And don't know about the last bubble bursting. That must be a big ass bubble. I doubt we will be out within the next year. But if we are, I'll be happily surprised. I believe we'll get to a next President who rallies behind "getting the troops out of Iraq" and then does so before Bush does it.
em, yeah, i DID put it in quotes and state the source so i dunno how he/she could have thought i wrote all that....
but anyway alejo you concetraded on the wrong part of the article ( again ), the most importaint bit was about iraq being turned into an islamic republic, the ( secondary ) goal of the war was supposed to be turning iraq in to a free democratic country, it becoming an islamic republic is the exact opposite of that......
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:33 AM   #169 (permalink)
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I voted No. I am choosing not to go into detail of the extent to which I feel on this...only because it's a touchy subject, there are 3000 angles of dicussion on it.....and I don't feel like writing.

I will say however, that our country is NOT worth dieing for....I support the troops only because we are human, and human compassion transends everythng.....I don't support WAR and the ACT of WAR. Kill or be killed as someone said......it's stupid to me.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:07 AM   #170 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah
I voted No. I am choosing not to go into detail of the extent to which I feel on this...only because it's a touchy subject, there are 3000 angles of dicussion on it.....and I don't feel like writing.

I will say however, that our country is NOT worth dieing for....I support the troops only because we are human, and human compassion transends everythng.....I don't support WAR and the ACT of WAR. Kill or be killed as someone said......it's stupid to me.
respect.well said.

adidass, the only goal of this war is to get the oil and gain strategic control
of the middle east.
everything else we are told is a media anaesthetic.
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