I'm talking about any relationships. Like Andrei said, you need to love yourself first. If you gain your worth from other people, what are you going to do when they are gone? Relationships like that are taxing on both parties, and are parasitic. Relationships are a good means of support, but ABOVE ALL you should be in love with yourself more than anyone else. Otherwise it leads to aforementioned parasitic relationships, you lend yourself to a role that is easily manipulated by another person.

I just added that as an afterthought, just in case thats what people are looking for. Nevertheless, guys, remember: We really like it if you listen to us and maintain eye contact. If a girl (or boy even, this works both ways) is looking at you like you don't have the right to be in their atmosphere, move the **** on. We're not ravenous beasts and we don't **** diamonds.
We also really like it if you engage us in a conversation about something that doesn't have to do with relationships. And if we're talking to you about something and you can tell it's something we really care about, listen even if it bores you. We dig that.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't think this concerns beta-males so much as it does beta-humans, I guess you could say. Maybe it affects you guys more because you are conditioned to be the dominant ones & are punished for doing anything remotely effeminate (like being submissive)

I just wanted my name removed cause I am not a guru and can't teach everyone everything but I still am gonna give advice on any situations that come up and discuss things.

It's definitely good to be a dependent person. Positive relationships with other people IS healthy though. If you hate yourself and are depressed then you aren't gonna just magically feel better cause someone gave you a compliment, but meeting new people and having friends and socializing is absolutely healthy. A level of self-confidence is definitely gained through relationships with other people. It's called having good social health.


Good way to approach girls at a bar or party that you don't already know: Go up to a group, and say "Hey I gotta get back to my friends but we wanted some girls opinions on this:" Then ask any question requiring them to answer and start a conversation. Like I usually say "my buddy just started dating this girl, should he totally stop contact with his ex?" And then that leads to a little discussion which really isn't the important part. The main thing is that through talking (about anything) you just get more comfortable around those people. After 5 minutes of talking, pull the ole "Oh, my names ___ by the way" and then start talking on a more personal level like what they study, where they work, where they are form, that sort of stuff. Be unserious, laugh a lot, and make sarcastic jokes and jabs. People have different opinions and definitions of "negging" but I think it's just part of flirting. Like making a rude type of remark about something they are wearing but do it in a way where you can both laugh about it.

Do enlighten us on what "social health" is

No problem. I went back and found a great book I read last semester for one of Sociology courses.


AwwSugar, the definition you gave pertains to a society and it's social health. For an INDIVIDUAL though, social health is being a part of the society they exist in. Being engaged in activity, having friends, being social. Basically being a part of something and conforming to the societal norms, "fitting in" to an extent which provides confidence and encouragement. And I don't mean "fitting in" like being considered cool in high school or something like that. Just being a part of society by being a member who participates, and not isolated which is a good way to get yourself depressed. Being active and social gives you self esteem and confidence and encouragement. That's what I think social health is.

Does every relationship with all of your friends qualify as an intimate one? Intimacy is one thing, and I don't deny that it is a genuine need for intimacy people have, not socialisation as you are defining it. It even states that intimacy is special, so obviously you're not going to have it in ALL of your relationships with other people.

Being engaged in activity and having friends is GREAT, don't get me wrong but conforming to have them is not something you should advocate. If you change yourself just to fit in and repress your true self, it is extremely unhealthy. Friends should be people who understand you and accept you for WHO YOU ARE and not who you are pretending to be. There's no intimacy in those types of relationships and they are very damaging to one's self image. It's a blatant message of "You have to change WHO YOU ARE otherwise, people won't like you". Um, no, if that's the case, you should find people who do like you for who you are. People should be free to fly their freak flags, and have freaky friends. Being accepted should not be a goal, accepting yourself should be.

Besides, being part of a group is not necessarily the best thing for everyone. You forget take in account that some people are naturally introverted, and prefer solitude over sociability.

I feel like it affects guys more because that's the way society has it set up. You rarely see a female that likes a guy go up and approach him. We are expected to take that role and go over to approach them. It takes confidence to do that it's not even about being dominant vs. being submissive.

The only reason I put your name down is because I thought you wanted to be a part of this type of thread based off of our conversation we had in the shoutbox the other night. I will take the brunt of it though. I don't claim to be an expert player or a ladies man or w/e either. That's why there is a disclaimer that you don't have to take our advice the final choice is completely up to you.

I guess the technical term for what you are describing there is opening a set. That is a perfect example of how to open a set. A set being a group of females but sets can also include males as well. You just want to put yourself out there and get a conversation going. I normally don't "neg" often but it's a fun trick to pull out every now and then just to see the reaction that you get. It definitely takes time and practice to know what exactly to say and how rude to be but it's usually something light hearted that gets a conversation started also. A good way to use a neg is if you want to attempt to get the female alone to yourself when she's in a group. A great example of this happened in the movie "Hitch". He went up to the girl that was crowded with guys and give her his money and told her a drink he wanted then walked away quickly so that she could follow him and then he could talk to her more.

I certainly don't want to speak for her, he can explain himself but I don't think that's what he meant.
The whole fitting in thing comes as a part of being yourself and being in a group that accepts you the way you are. You are being yourself and you haven't changed for anyone but you do belong to a group so you are "fitting" in, in a sense.

It is society that dictates how we interact with other people. I also put the blame onto stereotypes and religion, particularly christianity.
Guys are expected to be masculine and do all the things men are supposed to do, like play sports and drive the girl around. Sports are something that society expects men to do, like football. Just how much emphasis is placed on football? Aren't all the cool guys in the football team?

Also the stereotypes, if you play computer games then you are a nerd/geek; if you read lots of books ... you get the idea.
People even get judged by their looks. Do you wear black clothing? What about wearing glasses? Long hair?

Religion is something that also dictates how we act. Christianity says that men are the carers, providers, the leader of the house and they must be masculine; while women must take the submissive path, looking after kids, helping their husband, ect.

Why is there still a glass ceiling?
Ever noticed that there is a tonne of ads for women about being beautiful and 'perfect'?
Ever noticed that in romantic movies, you get a nerdy guy who gets lucky with a hot girl? Never the other way round ... with exception to Shallow Hal.

I dont mean to disrupt a good conversation but this thread is definitely straying from its intended purpose and because a catalyst for an argument/debate on roles of men vs women in society.

I only say this because I like the thread idea and Id like to see it be used. Therefore Ill present a question for anyone to answer since I would have a hard time describing it myself.

You mention "negs" which I think most guys understand a little bit but dont ever use (myself included) because they dont know how to implement them or dont want to be viewed as an arsehole. So explain what exactly it is and how exactly one could pull it off.