Your Day

The Batlord · 07-25-2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

in that case, why do you bother?

In a deterministic universe you bother because it's your nature to bother. If we're living in a deterministic universe then we're living in a society with a long line of bothering for no other reason than because it is in our nature to bother.

07-25-2019, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

Not really. You're not necessarily talking about making choices so much as just doing things. That's perfectly congruent with a deterministic universe.

he already conceded the point specifically about making choices, as I said.

And even in a more abstract sense if you think we aren't in control of our choices for some philosophical reason, if you agree that for instance my choice to smoke crack vs not smoking crack will impact my life, you are agreeing that what I decide to do ultimately matters. Even if somehow my decision is predetermined. Which would render not only personal choice but political choice utterly irrelevant.

07-25-2019, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

In a deterministic universe you bother because it's your nature to bother. If we're living in a deterministic universe then we're living in a society with a long line of bothering for no other reason than because it is in our nature to bother.

if that's the case then that should be your answer to everything

Yet you guys rationalize most of your decisions via other means.

The Batlord · 07-25-2019, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

he already conceded the point specifically about making choices, as I said.

And even in a more abstract sense if you think we aren't in control of our choices for some philosophical reason, if you agree that for instance my choice to smoke crack vs not smoking crack will impact my life, you are agreeing that what I decide to do ultimately matters. Even if somehow my decision is predetermined. Which would render not only personal choice but political choice utterly irrelevant.

If choice is irrelevant then it does not matter. And yeah I'm not really talking about the previous subject anymore. This is poised to be totes yet another circular discussion on compatibilist vs incompatibilist free will that's happened in the last few months.

07-25-2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

what determines your ability to make a delayed gratification choice?

if everyone is capable, why is it that some people do, and others don't?

some are definitely more predisposed to than others. But ultimately it's the same reason some kill and some don't. Some steal and some don't. There's a complex set of mental states behind any given decision.

07-25-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

what determines your ability to make a delayed gratification choice?

if everyone is capable, why is it that some people do, and others don't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

me, personally?

because of the way I was raised

asking anyone for help ever is like the most painful thing for me

so you don't feel that you could give up and lean on Mom, even if you wanted

07-25-2019, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

If choice is irrelevant then it does not matter. And yeah I'm not really talking about the previous subject anymore. This is poised to be totes yet another circular discussion on compatibilist vs incompatibilist free will that's happened in the last few months.

If choice is irrelevant than none of this matters. Not my thoughts on personal choice and not your thoughts on the system or political choice. We should all just shut up, roll over, and wait to die.

07-25-2019, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

well exactly

more disposed =/ determined

Choice is relevant even for the more disposed.

07-25-2019, 08:30 PM

If you have nothing to do with it then how is it a choice?

07-25-2019, 08:42 PM

Er... Nah I would disagree. It's still the right choice to go to work cause in most cases that's a better way to keep your job. You're basically playing the odds.

What you're saying is like saying you can ride the elevator and get to work on time or take the stairs and be late. This particular day the elevator breaks down and makes you more late. Therefore it was a bad choice vs the stairs.

This ignores the pragmatic element of making choices. But it would undoubtedly still be a bad decision to take the stairs everyday instead.

07-25-2019, 08:30 PM	#62379 (permalink)
jwb Guest Posts: n/a	If you have nothing to do with it then how is it a choice?

07-25-2019, 08:42 PM	#62380 (permalink)
jwb Guest Posts: n/a	Er... Nah I would disagree. It's still the right choice to go to work cause in most cases that's a better way to keep your job. You're basically playing the odds. What you're saying is like saying you can ride the elevator and get to work on time or take the stairs and be late. This particular day the elevator breaks down and makes you more late. Therefore it was a bad choice vs the stairs. This ignores the pragmatic element of making choices. But it would undoubtedly still be a bad decision to take the stairs everyday instead.