Marie Monday

Expecting anyone, even people who did not grow up in such an environment, to know all the ins and outs of very complicated gender structures sounds reasonable to you?
Sometimes the zeal to be progressive can actually flip over to the other side and become intolerant, or not aware enough of the struggles of people outside of a progressive bubble.

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Marie Monday

It is what we're dealing with: 'everyone outside of your group'. The majority of people will not be malignant, just ignorant, even in my experience as a target for that kind of intolerance. Holland is relatively progressive of course, but even jn other places many people will mean well.
And even in progressive bubbles it seems like some people assert there are hundreds of genders. Expecting people to keep track of all of that without stumbling is unreasonable.

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Marie Monday

Woke AI goes bleep

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Marie Monday

But anyway, the point I was trying to make is simply that humanity and empathy is way more important than wokeness, and wokeness can get in the way of that when it's ill-considered.

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jwb

it's not the exact same but some attributes are more universal than others. There are fairly broad generalizations you can make about gender that apply regardless of the culture you are referring to.

This is what I mean by social construct being a misleading term. There's no one definition of life or what makes an entity a form of life. There are multiple competing definitions. There's no one definition of species or what differentiates one species from another. But life is still a natural phenomenon. So is speciation. The fact that it's complicated doesn't make it any less concrete a description of some underlying reality.

As WWWP said, people hate grey areas. To me, the gender abolitionist approach seems like they seize on the grey areas and then conclude that the category is invalid because it's not clear cut black and white. I'm perfectly willing to accept the grey areas and that doesn't make me think the category itself is problematic.

jwb

Does life or speciation have only a loose biological basis?

Or is it that categories only lack a biological basis when they deal specifically with humans. How curious.

that's just it. I'm not seeing any such evaporation of the category I'm seeing people who were previously miscategorized correcting the record and identifying with what they see as the proper category. The idea that this is just a transitional phase to removing the category altogether is just pure conjecture mixed with wishful thinking. Nothing more.

jwb

please do address it

Because I think you draw a sort of distinction between what is biological and what is socially constructed that in reality is far less distinct than you realize

please... Name 10 major genders and try describing the functional differences between them

We're shifting from a binary distinction to a bimodal distribution i.e. a "spectrum". That isn't undermining the category. It's just adding contextual nuance

jwb

What?

Marie Monday

Yeah I don't necessarily disagree, I was teasing about the fact that your comment just came out of nowhere

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Marie Monday

We definitely have different perspectives, I think in Holland the intolerance is less aggressive than in the south of the US, and more caustic below the surface (even though it can be pretty ****ing aggressive here too). I do think that even with many of the worst people it's still best to just stay mature and not descend to their level of hostility

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