The queer corner

Chiomara · 08-06-2018, 09:33 AM

So does anyone else think that Taylor Swift is secretly a lesbian/professional beard? I get major gay vibes from her, in part due to her whole PR narrative (especially when comparing her to Chely Wright, the previously closeted country singer)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Here's something I've been thinking about lately if you guys want to discuss it:

How much does someone's sexual orientation affect their personality? Like, if you suddenly realized that you want to start experimenting, or deep down you want to switch genders, and so on, how much do you think it would change the core of your person?

I know that a lot of bisexual women (for instance) -- at least the younger ones-- will temporarily feel the need to change their appearance (I know you said personality, but I figure it's worth mentioning) so that other bisexual/gay women don't assume they're straight. "Bi invisibility," they call it. So they'll get a bad asymmetrical haircut and start wearing more plaid and have a Tegan & Sara phase or whatever. I can only speak for other women, but I know that realizing you're gay or bi can also cause you to reexamine and change your behavior to a degree-- I wouldn't say one's core personality changes but it can definitely change your behavior and make you suddenly hyper-aware of things like performative femininity and greatly reduce your willingness to participate in such things. I feel like things can get especially muddled and confusing for bisexuals, since we get demonized a lot and accused of merely experimenting before ultimately settling down with a man. But butch lesbians (for instance) definitely have it worse in terms of public misconceptions and such, even within the lgbt community.

And then there's the asexuals who still desire romantic relationships with those of the same sex; many lgbt people believe that if you do not actually have sex with those of the same sex, you can't call yourself gay/lesbian. I've always wondered how one should identify if, say, you're basically asexual, in part due to past sexual trauma, but can experience romantic love for the same sex, but do not wish to have sex (for whatever reason if not simple sex aversion/disinterest) despite wanting to be physically close/intimate with them in other romantic but non-sexual ways. Seems to be a lot of disagreement around the issue within the online communities I've lurked in.

But anyway, I think it partly depends on the level of aggressive social conditioning/repression that one experiences growing up; if one doesn't fully/consciously realize they're gay or bi till they're in their 20s or older then yes, I think that could very well change a core part of their personality upon accepting it-- or rather, a false part of our persona dies, one that was created in order to survive peacefully in bigoted small towns/closed-minded or abusive families or what-have-you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

But here's my real question that I've been leading up to:

Was the movie Chasing Amy an awful and bigoted piece of trash, or was it actually a pretty smart look at problems that we all have to this day? People always **** on it because the girl (who identifies as a lesbian) ends up falling in love with a guy. They see it as some sort of commentary that all lesbians are just pretending, or something like that.

But I think the point was that sexual orientation isn't always clear cut. People always say "Being gay isn't a choice", and that's certainly true for some people, but for others, it takes a lot of experimentation before they really figure out who/what they want from life. And yet so many people, both LGBT and straight, look down on people who are unsure, especially when they say they're one orientation but then change their mind. They look at them like they're a traitor, or a faker, or something, when they're just trying to figure out what's what.

So, like, is the movie actually kinda insightful in that way? Did people misunderstand it?

I very much agree with the bolded part.

I don't actually remember much of the movie at all, but I recall not being too fond of it since I for one am tired of lesbians being written as confused bisexuals. I mean, it's just a movie-- I think the storyline is a bit dumb but I wouldn't say it's a ~commentary really. Lesbians ultimately realizing they're bisexual and vice versa-- it does happen, just not usually in the way it's depicted in tv and movies. A much more common story in real life is a gay person being strung along by their straight-but-bi-curious friend and getting hurt.

And then in other movies (including those written by women) you've got the Doomed Lesbians trope where one either dies or suffers horribly at the end and the other starts dating a man or whatever. The LGBT movies on netflix are a trainwreck for the most part. (I really wanted to like Blue Is the Warmest Color, but in the end it was just your average indie mumblecore type film but with lesbian sex thrown in. I mean, I liked it, but it wasn't amazing)

Anyway, I sure hope this thread doesn't get bogged down by tedious Discourse™ about nothing.

DwnWthVwls · 08-06-2018, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara

Anyway, I sure hope this thread doesn't get bogged down by tedious Discourse™ about nothing.

I was hoping the OP would actually create some sort of discussion, but I don't see that happening so the children are now playing in the thread.

Key · 08-06-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I was hoping the OP would actually create some sort of discussion, but I don't see that happening so the children are now playing in the thread.

I assumed the title of the thread was evident enough as to what the OP wanted to talk about. I took that it meant: "anyone who wants to discuss LGBT issues or topics can post in here". At least that's what I pulled from it. Seems pretty self explanatory.

Oriphiel · 08-06-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara

I know that a lot of bisexual women (for instance) -- at least the younger ones-- will temporarily feel the need to change their appearance (I know you said personality, but I figure it's worth mentioning) so that other bisexual/gay women don't assume they're straight. "Bi invisibility," they call it. So they'll get a bad asymmetrical haircut and start wearing more plaid and have a Tegan & Sara phase or whatever. I can only speak for other women, but I know that realizing you're gay or bi can also cause you to reexamine and change your behavior to a degree-- I wouldn't say one's core personality changes but it can definitely change your behavior and make you suddenly hyper-aware of things like performative femininity and greatly reduce your willingness to participate in such things. I feel like things can get especially muddled and confusing for bisexuals, since we get demonized a lot and accused of merely experimenting before ultimately settling down with a man. But butch lesbians (for instance) definitely have it worse in terms of public misconceptions and such, even within the lgbt community.

And then there's the asexuals who still desire romantic relationships with those of the same sex; many lgbt people believe that if you do not actually have sex with those of the same sex, you can't call yourself gay/lesbian. I've always wondered how one should identify if, say, you're basically asexual, in part due to past sexual trauma, but can experience romantic love for the same sex, but do not wish to have sex (for whatever reason if not simple sex aversion/disinterest) despite wanting to be physically close/intimate with them in other romantic but non-sexual ways. Seems to be a lot of disagreement around the issue within the online communities I've lurked in.

But anyway, I think it partly depends on the level of aggressive social conditioning/repression that one experiences growing up; if one doesn't fully/consciously realize they're gay or bi till they're in their 20s or older then yes, I think that could very well change a core part of their personality upon accepting it-- or rather, a false part of our persona dies, one that was created in order to survive peacefully in bigoted small towns/closed-minded or abusive families or what-have-you.

Great points. It does make sense that people alter their appearance/mannerisms to correspond to their orientation, i.e. doing things that they think the people they're attracted to will like. Plenty of people from all kinds of backgrounds eventually find a culture or subculture that they associate with, and try (even if only in small ways) to fit into.

I guess what I'm really curious about is how much pressure people, both straight and LGBT, feel in terms of fulfilling certain roles that the community expects, and how those expectations compare/clash. I.e., like how straight men are often chastised for being "too feminine", or straight women for being "too masculine." I wouldn't exactly call myself 100% straight, but I've also only met a very small number of LGBT people, so I'm just really curious about the wider community.

Also, I've never met someone who identified as asexual, so I can't really comment, but I will say that there are all kinds of people with all kinds of needs and desires, so I personally wouldn't find it all that strange if someone wanted an intimate relationship with someone without sex being part of that relationship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara

I very much agree with the bolded part.

I don't actually remember much of the movie at all, but I recall not being too fond of it since I for one am tired of lesbians being written as confused bisexuals. I mean, it's just a movie-- I think the storyline is a bit dumb but I wouldn't say it's a ~commentary really. Lesbians ultimately realizing they're bisexual and vice versa-- it does happen, just not usually in the way it's depicted in tv and movies. A much more common story in real life is a gay person being strung along by their straight-but-bi-curious friend and getting hurt.

And then in other movies (including those written by women) you've got the Doomed Lesbians trope where one either dies or suffers horribly at the end and the other starts dating a man or whatever. The LGBT movies on netflix are a trainwreck for the most part. (I really wanted to like Blue Is the Warmest Color, but in the end it was just your average indie mumblecore type film but with lesbian sex thrown in. I mean, I liked it, but it wasn't amazing)

Anyway, I sure hope this thread doesn't get bogged down by tedious Discourse™ about nothing.

I mean, yeah, it isn't exactly the best movie ever, it's definitely flawed. I just thought it was a bit interesting, and that maybe people were kinda looking at it from the wrong angle.

Btw, Xena and Gabrielle are lowkey the greatest lesbian couple in movies/TV.

DwnWthVwls · 08-06-2018, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Btw, Xena and Gabrielle are lowkey the greatest lesbian couple in movies/TV.

Now you got me wondering if this ever happened... I miss those old fantasy shows.

http://www.afterellen.com/entertainm...rincess-reboot

Callisto feels left out.

Oriphiel · 08-06-2018, 12:37 PM

Top ten gay pride track:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Callisto feels left out.

adidasss · 08-07-2018, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara

So does anyone else think that Taylor Swift is secretly a lesbian/professional beard? I get major gay vibes from her, in part due to her whole PR narrative (especially when comparing her to Chely Wright, the previously closeted country singer)

First of all, hello mature, eloquent and insightful person, thank you for being a member of MB and for saving a thread that was going to hell real fast.

Second, I never though about it before you mentioned it, although she does seem a bit tomboyish. I would hope that in 2018 she wouldn't have to hide though. So hopefully not, because that would just be a little sad.

Quote:

The LGBT movies on netflix are a trainwreck for the most part. (I really wanted to like Blue Is the Warmest Color, but in the end it was just your average indie mumblecore type film but with lesbian sex thrown in. I mean, I liked it, but it wasn't amazing)

In Europe, we'd just call that an "art film". I don't remember much about it, apart from "the sex scene" and generally terrific performances, but I found I liked Carol better. Ironically, it was "warmer"? for me.

Good LGBT films are extremely difficult to find in general though, not just netflix. Depends on your preferences of course, I for example, didn't care at all for Call me by your name even though most people were fawning over it (even Ivory had an issue with its puritanical approach to gay intimacy DESPITE being directed by a gay man, probably because he's an Italian gay man).

Most LGBT films either suffer from lackluster performances (difficult to find good gay actors or believable straight actors playing gay characters), low budget or throwaway silly storylines when they try to go for a more "mainstream" appeal.

And obviously lesbian, bi and trans content is even harder to find than gay so...

Still some classics to choose from, not on netflix maybe...

Oriphiel · 08-07-2018, 07:37 AM

I can't even imagine how many repressed lesbians must have splooshed when they first heard this **** in '73:

The Batlord · 08-07-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

First of all, hello mature, eloquent and insightful person, thank you for being a member of MB and for saving a thread that was going to hell real fast.

Second, I never though about it before you mentioned it, although she does seem a bit tomboyish. I would hope that in 2018 she wouldn't have to hide though. So hopefully not, because that would just be a little sad.

She does come from country music so maybe old habits die hard? I hear that Dolly Parton is a barely closeted lesbian with a beard husband and a "best friend" who went on their honeymoon, and if true she's one of the biggest country stars of all-time and a 1st tier gay icon to boot but she won't even come out after decades. Country music is slightly stifled like that.

Chiomara · 08-07-2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

She does come from country music so maybe old habits die hard? I hear that Dolly Parton is a barely closeted lesbian with a beard husband and a "best friend" who went on their honeymoon, and if true she's one of the biggest country stars of all-time and a 1st tier gay icon to boot but she won't even come out after decades. Country music is slightly stifled like that.

I've heard that Whitney Houston was gay too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Second, I never though about it before you mentioned it, although she does seem a bit tomboyish. I would hope that in 2018 she wouldn't have to hide though. So hopefully not, because that would just be a little sad.

I'd imagine it'd be extra difficult for someone like her, considering how her original fanbase (country fans) may be a bit conservative and not as open to the idea (if my conspiracy theory is correct). I found this clip from a Chely Wright interview that talks about it more in depth-- not that it's really new information for most of us, seeing as all this has been going on since the old hollywood days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

In Europe, we'd just call that an "art film". I don't remember much about it, apart from "the sex scene" and generally terrific performances, but I found I liked Carol better. Ironically, it was "warmer"? for me.

Oh, I've nothing against long, moody art films; Lea Seydoux was pretty convincing in the role, but I don't know, I just felt it was lacking something. Carol definitely felt warmer, as you said. (And also.. Cate Blanchett. I was going to love it regardless) Haven't seen Call Me By Your Name; when I first started hearing about it I felt sort of iffy about the plot, though I don't remember why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Most LGBT films either suffer from lackluster performances (difficult to find good gay actors or believable straight actors playing gay characters), low budget or throwaway silly storylines when they try to go for a more "mainstream" appeal.

I dearly hope that the movie coming out about Virginia Woolf and her lover will be good or at least not too terribly butchered.

And yeah, netflix has never had a great movie selection in general. And plenty of older films especially are filled to the brim with gay/lesbian subtext, so I often just rewatch those instead. (Fried Green Tomatoes, etc)

I think Gia was my first Gay Movie Experience. Saw it when it first came on HBO (I think?) when I was a teenager.

08-07-2018, 07:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	I can't even imagine how many repressed lesbians must have splooshed when they first heard this **** in '73: __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------