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Old 10-18-2018, 07:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by adidasss View Post
Isn't there something about a representative democracy, especially the american one, where the constituents can get in touch with their representatives or civil rights pressure groups which could influence members of the parliament/congress to re-evaluate the status-quo? Lindsey Graham for example isn't toeing the line. Why not others? :occasional optimist:
America isn't going to do anything to threaten Saudi oil exports. Our economy has already been brought low in the 70s by oil and whenever oil prices go up the country tenses up for good reason. The politicians know this, the American people know this, and both know that neither have the will to rock the boat for the sake of people on the other side of the planet when it will only end up in economic ****ery. Nothing will ever change until we lose our dependency on oil and at this point there's about a roughly equal amount of political will for that too.

And Saudi Arabia acting as a deterrent to Iran is also no small consideration for us.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Isn't there something about a representative democracy, especially the american one, where the constituents can get in touch with their representatives or civil rights pressure groups which could influence members of the parliament/congress to re-evaluate the status-quo?
No.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I think you enjoy being dense.
Let’s see how it turns out. We can humpty bump this thread next year.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
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And Saudi Arabia acting as a deterrent to Iran is also no small consideration for us.
What's the problem with Iran? I mean, as opposed to Saudi.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The question isn't what's the problem with Iran it's whether our government likes Iran. They don't. Iran has some problem with us over CIA ****ery or some such whatever I guess they're just whiny bitches. Saudi Arabia is a rival to Iran for influence in the Middle East and our leaders rather like that. Without Israel and the Saudis we really wouldn't have that much in the way of friends in the region if you can believe that so we're not about to throw that away over something like freedom of the press.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Iran occasionally puts their beliefs in front of business. Saudi Arabia doesn’t play that.

The arms deal Trump negotiated with SA immediately after taking office is all about ****ing with Iran. Iran was making healthy strides against xenophobia but we don’t care.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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As a self-certified genius, Trump now finds himself in something of a Saudi pickle. The supposedly reformist crown prince Mohammed bin Salman was supposed to help him clean up the world by taking on Tehran. But Saudi Arabia can’t even clean up an Istanbul consulate after their own goons are alleged to have hacked to death a single troublesome journalist.
As Trump cozies up to Saudi Arabia, the rule of law collapses further

Great read!
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Here’s what you need to know:

*Saudi Arabia will continue to fuel America
*The relationship will not change
*The American people will forget shortly
*Saudi royalty will continue to do as they please
*Saudi Arabia will continue to be one of the most oppressive societies in the world
*America will continue to be the greediest country in the world
*The truth will continue to be irrelevant

You can learn the details or not. Demand justice or not. Protest or not. Vote or not. Nothing you do is going to matter.
^ Except for the bit in bold I agree with OH's analysis, esp that the relationship between S Arabia and the West isn't going to change much any time soon. For a bit of perspective, here's the Queen being chummy with the Saudi's in the 1980s, even though their human rights record was just as bad, and just as well-known:-



At least with the Queen, she has perfected the art of acting politely and being disdainful at the same time, unlike Laughing Boy Pompeo who bounces around like a kid who's been allowed into the clown's house.

Other differences this time round:-
* Saudis have breached the accepted etiquette about what countries can do in their embassies. All embassies on foreign soil are there as a gesture of international goodwill: if I was Turkey, I'd close down the Saudi embassy because of their abuse of hospitality.
* The billions of trade dollars that Trump talks about aren't real. The numbers are wrong, the deals don't exist, etc. Instead of selling out on justice for US trade, Trump and Kushner are prob focused on their personal financial schemes with the Saudis, bringing a new level of veniality to international politics.
* Only Trump is so diplomatically crass that he's "doing Saudi Arabia's PR for them" by promoting a fatuous explanation of who killed poor old Jamal K.

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Originally Posted by adidasss View Post
Isn't there something about a representative democracy, especially the american one, where the constituents can get in touch with their representatives or civil rights pressure groups which could influence members of the parliament/congress to re-evaluate the status-quo? Lindsey Graham for example isn't toeing the line. Why not others? :occasional optimist:
^ Yep, I absolutely agree, adidasss. Voting still brings about change in the US. Vote for parties that promote green energy solutions and the Saudi Oil bogeyman will see his stranglehold on the West declining.

There's already been a debate on MB about Should people vote?. IMO the answer is Yes! Look at the results it has produced: it was voting that overturned Prohibition; it was voting that put a black man in the Oval office. How unthinkable was that 150 years back?!! I would advise anyone: vote, be patient, then vote again. Don't waste your democratic right just because there's no instant gratification.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
Trump already put his social media tag on this: Rogue Killers

Here’s what you need to know:

*Saudi Arabia will continue to fuel America
*The relationship will not change
*The American people will forget shortly
*Saudi royalty will continue to do as they please
*Saudi Arabia will continue to be one of the most oppressive societies in the world
*America will continue to be the greediest country in the world
*The truth will continue to be irrelevant


You can learn the details or not. Demand justice or not. Protest or not. Vote or not. Nothing you do is going to matter.

Accuse me of acting like an angst-ridden teenager all you want. The truth remains that it doesn’t matter if you care about this.
don't fret though the apocalypse is coming

chug that oil
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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What happened to Kashoggi then?
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