Tool/A Perfect Circle (rock, albums, Tool, tracks, quote)

~~Farfisa~~ · 06-29-2008, 05:05 PM

Tool is a great band...I just don't like the majority of their fans is all.

cardboard adolescent · 06-29-2008, 05:19 PM

That's what everyone always says but all the Tool fans I've met in real life are pretty cool people (there's only three of them, so I can say that honestly). Sure there's a lot of morons who like Tool spamming message boards but you can't take them as being representative of the entire fan base.

Rainard Jalen · 06-30-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

That's what everyone always says but all the Tool fans I've met in real life are pretty cool people (there's only three of them, so I can say that honestly). Sure there's a lot of morons who like Tool spamming message boards but you can't take them as being representative of the entire fan base.

A lot of the people you come across at gigs are twonks as well. Tool are the one example I have of a band I once really liked, but was compelled to dislike by the embarrassment of being associated (in any way) with some of those crypto-elitist pseudo-intellectual idiots. Objectively speaking, though, Tool are without question one of the best prog bands to exist post-70s.

lucifer_sam · 07-01-2008, 10:42 AM

A lot of people don't recognize how great Tool is. I really like their music, but I also recognize how immeasurably talented the band is. Adam Jones is a great guitarist who sometime gets overlooked for his...erm..."unconventional" style. Danny Carey is a superb drummer, possibly my favorite modern drummer, and has insane mechanical prowess (listen to his tabla solo on Right in Two). And Maynard is...well...Maynard. There's really no other way to describe that man.

I had heard Tool on local radio stations for years and not thought of them twice. Although I was drawn to Tool by 10,000 Days, I worked backwards, eventually making my way to Undertow. I learned to love their strange opuses like Third Eye (which remains my favorite Tool song) and I began to recognize the brilliance in Aenima and Lateralus (which is my favorite album). I saw them twice live, and they were spectacular both times, combining lighting and sound elements to produce an ethereal effect on the senses. I wholeheartedly think they are one of the best modern bands.

Rainard Jalen · 07-01-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Adam Jones is a great guitarist who sometime gets overlooked for his...erm..."unconventional" style.

Adam Jones technically speaking is not a great guitarist. But he is good at what he does and fits the bill perfectly for Tool's sound.

lucifer_sam · 07-01-2008, 02:26 PM

That's a rather obtuse way of looking at him. It's not just me that thinks hes great; he was in Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time (#75) and Guitar World's 100 Greatest Hard Rock Guitarists (#9). But I guess that doesn't mean much to you.

Very well. Technically speaking, he is a fantastic guitarist. It takes a great deal of control to use a slide guitar like he does. He does for Tool what Tom Morello did for Rage. If you play guitar, you should be able to recognize the difficulty of using a slide with as much precision as Jones does.

Rainard Jalen · 07-01-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

That's a rather obtuse way of looking at him. It's not just me that thinks hes great; he was in Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time (#75) and Guitar World's 100 Greatest Hard Rock Guitarists (#9). But I guess that doesn't mean much to you.

Number 75 is pretty much an honorary mention, and as for the Guitar World poll, it mentions quite explicitly that, and I quote:

"This is not a list that ranks who can play the fastest or with the most taste, feeling or technique (although many players on our list have all of those arrows in their quiver) ... It is, rather, a tribute to the great men who **** iron and piss stainless steel razor blades, and do it every time they plug into an amplifier."

If you want to talk actual pure dexterity in terms of speed and amazing technique, Jones is not skillful in that way and I believe he has admitted that too in interviews. This is one of the factors that has actually shaped Tool's sound. If Jones had always been an AMAZING riff player, soloist, and had all sorts of other insane tricks in his repertoire, Tool would have come to sound quite different to how they do. As it happens he's quite an unpretentious player, doing simpler things (compared to many other metal bands) but doing them very well. This is clearly reflected in Tool's music. The guitar parts never whizz off into the land of look-what-I-can-do. The complexities of Tool's music is built more in the interplay between the instruments and how the contrastive rhythms play off each other.

Quote:

Very well. Technically speaking, he is a fantastic guitarist. It takes a great deal of control to use a slide guitar like he does. He does for Tool what Tom Morello did for Rage. If you play guitar, you should be able to recognize the difficulty of using a slide with as much precision as Jones does.

Actually, Jones is the one member of Tool who has been known to mess up in live sets. He didn't get his negative reputation among many guitar junkies for no reason. As I say, he's phenomenally good at what he does, but he simply does not possess the sort of skill that the really great metal guitarists do. Only the most fanatical of Tool fans would seriously try to claim that he has as much skill as the widely revered great players.

lucifer_sam · 07-01-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainard Jalen

Number 75 is pretty much an honorary mention, and as for the Guitar World poll, it mentions quite explicitly that, and I quote:

"This is not a list that ranks who can play the fastest or with the most taste, feeling or technique (although many players on our list have all of those arrows in their quiver) ... It is, rather, a tribute to the great men who **** iron and piss stainless steel razor blades, and do it every time they plug into an amplifier."

If you want to talk actual pure dexterity in terms of speed and amazing technique, Jones is not skillful in that way and I believe he has admitted that too in interviews. This is one of the factors that has actually shaped Tool's sound. If Jones had always been an AMAZING riff player, soloist, and had all sorts of other insane tricks in his repertoire, Tool would have come to sound quite different to how they do. As it happens he's quite an unpretentious player, doing simpler things (compared to many other metal bands) but doing them very well. This is clearly reflected in Tool's music. The guitar parts never whizz off into the land of look-what-I-can-do. The complexities of Tool's music is built more in the interplay between the instruments and how the contrastive rhythms play off each other.

Actually, Jones is the one member of Tool who has been known to mess up in live sets. He didn't get his negative reputation among many guitar junkies for no reason. As I say, he's phenomenally good at what he does, but he simply does not possess the sort of skill that the really great metal guitarists do. Only the most fanatical of Tool fans would seriously try to claim that he has as much skill as the widely revered great players.

I never once said that Adam Jones was a particularly fast or dexterous guitar player. I said he was great and he had a great deal of technical prowess. Which is perfectly true. But speed, as you quoted yourself, doesn't seem to be straight formula for a great guitarist.

I suppose his negative reputation also makes him less than great. He's simply unskilled compared to those other great metal and progressive guitarists. Rolling Stone was obviously just giving him an honorably mention for being "good at what he does." Just like they did with Eddie Van Halen, who came after Adam Jones. And Dave Gilmour, who was in the eighties. Angus Young, at #96, must have realized he would never be a great metal guitarist.

I'm not saying that the mundane list is concrete evidence that Adam Jones was a godlike demon on guitar, ripping people new ones as he played faster than ears could handle. You're perfectly right: if Jones had that speed and dexterity, Tool would sound very, very different. But you're ignoring what I'm trying to say. It's not me proclaiming like an ignorant fanboy that he was better than everyone else. I simply stated, and I'll repeat:

Adam Jones is a great guitarist.

Rainard Jalen · 07-01-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

I never once said that Adam Jones was a particularly fast or dexterous guitar player. I said he was great and he had a great deal of technical prowess. Which is perfectly true. But speed, as you quoted yourself, doesn't seem to be straight formula for a great guitarist.

I suppose his negative reputation also makes him less than great. He's simply unskilled compared to those other great metal and progressive guitarists. Rolling Stone was obviously just giving him an honorably mention for being "good at what he does." Just like they did with Eddie Van Halen, who came after Adam Jones. And Dave Gilmour, who was in the eighties. Angus Young, at #96, must have realized he would never be a great metal guitarist.

I'm not saying that the mundane list is concrete evidence that Adam Jones was a godlike demon on guitar, ripping people new ones as he played faster than ears could handle. You're perfectly right: if Jones had that speed and dexterity, Tool would sound very, very different. But you're ignoring what I'm trying to say. It's not me proclaiming like an ignorant fanboy that he was better than everyone else. I simply stated, and I'll repeat:

Adam Jones is a great guitarist.

And I'll repeat: Adam Jones is a good guitarist

.

sleepy jack · 07-02-2008, 09:55 PM

Danny Carey sucks. He utilitzes pro-tools super chromatic turbo phasing percussive toner on all his tracks to beef up his sound. That's why countless producers refuse to work with him. Yeah sure anybody can sound like a drumming wizard with all that studio doctoring. I read somewhere that in order to approximate the sound of his drumming on the albums in a live setting, he actually hires a couple of midgets to hide behind his kit at shows and help out with some of the fills. Tool fans don't wanna hear this of course because they're too busy worshipping the very shit that drops from Tool's collective asses. The only thing more redundant than a Tool guitar riff, is the throng of minions willing to drop to their knees and orally service Maynard on command. Gimme a break with this crap. And for the record, Ringo Starr owns Carey.

07-01-2008, 10:42 AM	#364 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	A lot of people don't recognize how great Tool is. I really like their music, but I also recognize how immeasurably talented the band is. Adam Jones is a great guitarist who sometime gets overlooked for his...erm..."unconventional" style. Danny Carey is a superb drummer, possibly my favorite modern drummer, and has insane mechanical prowess (listen to his tabla solo on Right in Two). And Maynard is...well...Maynard. There's really no other way to describe that man. I had heard Tool on local radio stations for years and not thought of them twice. Although I was drawn to Tool by 10,000 Days, I worked backwards, eventually making my way to Undertow. I learned to love their strange opuses like Third Eye (which remains my favorite Tool song) and I began to recognize the brilliance in Aenima and Lateralus (which is my favorite album). I saw them twice live, and they were spectacular both times, combining lighting and sound elements to produce an ethereal effect on the senses. I wholeheartedly think they are one of the best modern bands. __________________ first.am

07-01-2008, 02:26 PM	#366 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	That's a rather obtuse way of looking at him. It's not just me that thinks hes great; he was in Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time (#75) and Guitar World's 100 Greatest Hard Rock Guitarists (#9). But I guess that doesn't mean much to you. Very well. Technically speaking, he is a fantastic guitarist. It takes a great deal of control to use a slide guitar like he does. He does for Tool what Tom Morello did for Rage. If you play guitar, you should be able to recognize the difficulty of using a slide with as much precision as Jones does. __________________ first.am

06-29-2008, 05:05 PM	#361 (permalink)
~~Farfisa~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,773	Tool is a great band...I just don't like the majority of their fans is all.

06-29-2008, 05:19 PM	#362 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	That's what everyone always says but all the Tool fans I've met in real life are pretty cool people (there's only three of them, so I can say that honestly). Sure there's a lot of morons who like Tool spamming message boards but you can't take them as being representative of the entire fan base.