Ramones vs. The Clash

Vancouver · 01-29-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Here's your answer: they, along with several other NYC punk bands, had a lot of influence on the Sex Pistols.

yes I'm aware, but the end result was REALLY different than anything going on in the USA. So it's the level of influence we disagree on...

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 01-30-2010, 07:47 PM

Not really different, I'd say. They were also put together to sell clothes, and replaced their perfectly competent bassist with someone who was chosen more for his image.

I think, The Stooges were more of a spearhead, along with the MC5 (MI represent) and the Dead Boys as well, they were more like the Pistols, actually. According to the book Please Kill Me (I thin k it was) Patti Smith actually did the first ''punk'' show. All of the CBGBs crowd was a huuuuuuuuge influence on what was to become punk rock, and that did include the Ramones (along with other fantastic bands, such as Television, Blondie, and the Talking Heads).

Fun fact: The Clash were afraid of the Ramones when they came to England, they thought they'd beat them up.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 01-30-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Here's your answer: they, along with several other NYC punk bands, had a lot of influence on the Sex Pistols.

It's also a vastly overstated influence.

Sure Steve Jones was into the New York Dolls but he was just as much into Bowie & Roxy Music.
Lydon hated all the New York stuff, he was into Alice Cooper, Can & Hawkwind.

People overstate the New York influence far too much.

Neapolitan · 01-30-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

It's also a vastly overstated influence.

Sure Steve Jones was into the New York Dolls but he was just as much into Bowie & Roxy Music.
Lydon hated all the New York stuff, he was into Alice Cooper, Can & Hawkwind.

People overstate the New York influence far too much.

I see it as Punk having two different pools of influence on either side of the Atlantic. There is a thread of influence that runs from Frat Rock into Garage Rock into Punk the inbetween Garage and punk became to be known as "Proto-Punk" - a retronym. Acid Rock and Glam Rock has some influnce too, one thread of influence not mention is from Dick Dale, Surf Rock, The Ramones were influenced by the Beach Boys and they in turned were influnced by Dick Dale. Johnny Ramone began as a bass player then switch to guitar, and played his guitar similar to playing bass where he played 5th chords in I IV V progression. imo The Ramones really had the classic Punk sound (they innovated it and kept it where other bands it was a passing thing.)

loveissucide · 01-31-2010, 08:46 AM

As well as this, the pub rock scene was crucial in creating punk, by virtue of (i) it being a natural musical progression, (ii) providing a new live circuit for new groups, and (iii) helping differentiate the British and American scenes by allowing for a wider range of acts, as opposed to the Ramones imitators that came to dominate the US scene.

**Janszoon** · 01-31-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

It's also a vastly overstated influence.

Sure Steve Jones was into the New York Dolls but he was just as much into Bowie & Roxy Music.
Lydon hated all the New York stuff, he was into Alice Cooper, Can & Hawkwind.

People overstate the New York influence far too much.

I know you think that but I disagree. The Sex Pistols sounded a hell of a lot more like the NYC bands than Bowie, Roxy Music, Alice Cooper, Can and Hawkwind. The connection is pretty obvious to me and I think people downplay the NYC influence too much.

Alfred · 01-31-2010, 10:09 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again... we should close this thread, as well as the other one and just make a Clash vs Sex Pistols vs Ramones thread.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 01-31-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I know you think that but I disagree. The Sex Pistols sounded a hell of a lot more like the NYC bands than Bowie, Roxy Music, Alice Cooper, Can and Hawkwind. The connection is pretty obvious to me and I think people downplay the NYC influence too much.

If anything it owes more to Detroit than New York.

**Janszoon** · 02-05-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

If anything it owes more to Detroit than New York.

I think NYC was the more immediate precursor with the more direct connection but I agree with you that Detroit was really important as well and a huge influence on the NYC bands.

~~Taytayism27~~ · 03-25-2010, 03:02 PM

The Ramones, 100% fersure. But thats just me. I personally, cant beleive the Clash are winning by so much. In my opinion, the Ramones are so very much better. I mean really, just listen to them, its indescribable!

View Poll Results: Who was better?
The Ramones	64,000	99.81%
The Clash	121	0.19%
The Sex Pistols suck (aka, never listened to either)	3	0.00%
Voters: 64124. You may not vote on this poll

01-31-2010, 08:46 AM	#295 (permalink)
loveissucide Himself Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Leuven ,Belgium, via Ireland Posts: 1,325	As well as this, the pub rock scene was crucial in creating punk, by virtue of (i) it being a natural musical progression, (ii) providing a new live circuit for new groups, and (iii) helping differentiate the British and American scenes by allowing for a wider range of acts, as opposed to the Ramones imitators that came to dominate the US scene. __________________ www.last.fm/user/p-mccusker http://www.mixcloud.com/pmccusker www.valjester.wordpress.com

01-31-2010, 10:09 AM	#297 (permalink)
Alfred one big soul Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 5,096	I've said it before and I'll say it again... we should close this thread, as well as the other one and just make a Clash vs Sex Pistols vs Ramones thread. __________________ LAST.FM / VINYL COLLECTION / RYM

01-30-2010, 07:47 PM	#292 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	Not really different, I'd say. They were also put together to sell clothes, and replaced their perfectly competent bassist with someone who was chosen more for his image. I think, The Stooges were more of a spearhead, along with the MC5 (MI represent) and the Dead Boys as well, they were more like the Pistols, actually. According to the book Please Kill Me (I thin k it was) Patti Smith actually did the first ''punk'' show. All of the CBGBs crowd was a huuuuuuuuge influence on what was to become punk rock, and that did include the Ramones (along with other fantastic bands, such as Television, Blondie, and the Talking Heads). Fun fact: The Clash were afraid of the Ramones when they came to England, they thought they'd beat them up.

03-25-2010, 03:02 PM	#300 (permalink)
~~Taytayism27~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Area, PA, USA Posts: 9	The Ramones, 100% fersure. But thats just me. I personally, cant beleive the Clash are winning by so much. In my opinion, the Ramones are so very much better. I mean really, just listen to them, its indescribable!