Ramones vs. The Clash

Urban Hat€monger ? · 01-30-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Here's your answer: they, along with several other NYC punk bands, had a lot of influence on the Sex Pistols.

It's also a vastly overstated influence.

Sure Steve Jones was into the New York Dolls but he was just as much into Bowie & Roxy Music.
Lydon hated all the New York stuff, he was into Alice Cooper, Can & Hawkwind.

People overstate the New York influence far too much.

Vancouver · 01-29-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I don't know if the Sex Pistols "invented the politics in it" (most likely not) but they weren't one of the first punk bands so it's pretty hard to claim that they have any kind of monopoly on defining the fundamentals of punk.

People could argue about who started it all day I'm sure. The Saints ... Stranded ..etc..but that was one song. Velvet Underground ya ya..The Dolls.

However what I consider punk (which isn't saying anything) was them. Nothing before that to me was. I'm not in the majority I know. Some before them sounded more punk than others. Some I can't get how they get the label.

It felt like punk to me, sounded like punk, smelled like punk. Pere Ubu, Blondie, Television etc..sounded new to me...just not punk.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 01-30-2010, 07:47 PM

Not really different, I'd say. They were also put together to sell clothes, and replaced their perfectly competent bassist with someone who was chosen more for his image.

I think, The Stooges were more of a spearhead, along with the MC5 (MI represent) and the Dead Boys as well, they were more like the Pistols, actually. According to the book Please Kill Me (I thin k it was) Patti Smith actually did the first ''punk'' show. All of the CBGBs crowd was a huuuuuuuuge influence on what was to become punk rock, and that did include the Ramones (along with other fantastic bands, such as Television, Blondie, and the Talking Heads).

Fun fact: The Clash were afraid of the Ramones when they came to England, they thought they'd beat them up.

loveissucide · 01-31-2010, 08:46 AM

As well as this, the pub rock scene was crucial in creating punk, by virtue of (i) it being a natural musical progression, (ii) providing a new live circuit for new groups, and (iii) helping differentiate the British and American scenes by allowing for a wider range of acts, as opposed to the Ramones imitators that came to dominate the US scene.

Alfred · 01-31-2010, 10:09 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again... we should close this thread, as well as the other one and just make a Clash vs Sex Pistols vs Ramones thread.

~~Taytayism27~~ · 03-25-2010, 03:02 PM

The Ramones, 100% fersure. But thats just me. I personally, cant beleive the Clash are winning by so much. In my opinion, the Ramones are so very much better. I mean really, just listen to them, its indescribable!

SBWNik · 03-25-2010, 11:20 PM

The Ramones - barely musical shouty stuff.
The Clash - Intelligent lyrics played by reasonably talented musicians.
The Sex Pistols - Punks first boy band, all hype and image, but sod all talent.

Got to be The Clash really, hasn't it?

(Though I'd have gone for The Dead Kennedys given the option...)

**Janszoon** · 03-26-2010, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBWNik

The Ramones - barely musical shouty stuff.

Shouty? Whether you like the Ramones or not, I don't really see how that's a word that could be used to describe their style.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 03-26-2010, 08:39 AM

Not another Clash fan with Bernie Rhodes myopia.

SBWNik · 03-27-2010, 11:31 PM

Not me, I'd rather listen to several other punk bands - SLF, Dead Kennedys, Exploited, Anti-Nowhere League, Siouxsie & The Banshees, The Damned - before The Clash, but their impact on the political side of punk can hardly be ignored.
The Ramones? Barely understandable lyrics and a three chord thrash. They may have been in there early - earlier than The Clash - but that doesn't stop them from being pretty overrated. The Sex Pistols? All hype, put together by a shrewd business man with an eye for popular culture. Look at 'The Great Rock & Roll Swindle'. The lessons in that film are a pretty accurate depiction of how he made the Pistols popular. With unwitting help from Bill Grundy of course.

View Poll Results: Who was better?
The Ramones	64,000	99.81%
The Clash	121	0.19%
The Sex Pistols suck (aka, never listened to either)	3	0.00%
Voters: 64124. You may not vote on this poll

01-31-2010, 08:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
loveissucide Himself Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Leuven ,Belgium, via Ireland Posts: 1,325	As well as this, the pub rock scene was crucial in creating punk, by virtue of (i) it being a natural musical progression, (ii) providing a new live circuit for new groups, and (iii) helping differentiate the British and American scenes by allowing for a wider range of acts, as opposed to the Ramones imitators that came to dominate the US scene. __________________ www.last.fm/user/p-mccusker http://www.mixcloud.com/pmccusker www.valjester.wordpress.com

01-31-2010, 10:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
Alfred one big soul Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 5,096	I've said it before and I'll say it again... we should close this thread, as well as the other one and just make a Clash vs Sex Pistols vs Ramones thread. __________________ LAST.FM / VINYL COLLECTION / RYM

03-26-2010, 08:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,626	Not another Clash fan with Bernie Rhodes myopia. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

01-30-2010, 07:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	Not really different, I'd say. They were also put together to sell clothes, and replaced their perfectly competent bassist with someone who was chosen more for his image. I think, The Stooges were more of a spearhead, along with the MC5 (MI represent) and the Dead Boys as well, they were more like the Pistols, actually. According to the book Please Kill Me (I thin k it was) Patti Smith actually did the first ''punk'' show. All of the CBGBs crowd was a huuuuuuuuge influence on what was to become punk rock, and that did include the Ramones (along with other fantastic bands, such as Television, Blondie, and the Talking Heads). Fun fact: The Clash were afraid of the Ramones when they came to England, they thought they'd beat them up.

03-25-2010, 03:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
~~Taytayism27~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Area, PA, USA Posts: 9	The Ramones, 100% fersure. But thats just me. I personally, cant beleive the Clash are winning by so much. In my opinion, the Ramones are so very much better. I mean really, just listen to them, its indescribable!

03-25-2010, 11:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
SBWNik Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 67	The Ramones - barely musical shouty stuff. The Clash - Intelligent lyrics played by reasonably talented musicians. The Sex Pistols - Punks first boy band, all hype and image, but sod all talent. Got to be The Clash really, hasn't it? (Though I'd have gone for The Dead Kennedys given the option...)

03-27-2010, 11:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
SBWNik Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 67	Not me, I'd rather listen to several other punk bands - SLF, Dead Kennedys, Exploited, Anti-Nowhere League, Siouxsie & The Banshees, The Damned - before The Clash, but their impact on the political side of punk can hardly be ignored. The Ramones? Barely understandable lyrics and a three chord thrash. They may have been in there early - earlier than The Clash - but that doesn't stop them from being pretty overrated. The Sex Pistols? All hype, put together by a shrewd business man with an eye for popular culture. Look at 'The Great Rock & Roll Swindle'. The lessons in that film are a pretty accurate depiction of how he made the Pistols popular. With unwitting help from Bill Grundy of course.