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Old 04-21-2014, 10:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Such as?
Well, The New York Dolls, which The Sex Pistols were directly influenced by. Also, The Ramones, The Stooges, The Damned, The MC5, The Dictators, etc.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Well, The New York Dolls, which The Sex Pistols were directly influenced by. Also, The Ramones, The Stooges, The Damned, The MC5, The Dictators, etc.
Well why don't we throw in just about every garage rock band ever formed into the mix too if we're gonna start counting every vaguely punk forerunner band? I hear the same argument against Black Sabbath not being the first heavy metal band when people mention everybody from Led Zeppelin to the Kinks. Punk as it is and always has been known started in England (the CBGB's scene was really just an art rock scene that had the Ramones). And the Sex Pistols were the catalyst for this sound.

And did the Damned form before the Sex Pistols? And if so did they sound like the Damned as we know them? I know they released a single and an album before the Sex Pistols, but that's not what we're talking about.

Also the Ramones were across an ocean. Almost nobody on either side of the pond had any idea what the other scene sounded like until they all started releasing albums. So for all intents and purposes no band in England sounded like the Sex Pistols at the time.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The Ramones had quite an impact, but I prefer the music of the Sex Pistols. More energetic and interesting.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The Ramones had quite an impact, but I prefer the music of the Sex Pistols. More energetic and interesting.
And Johnny Rotten has got to be my favorite frontman of all time. Also my favorite person to watch on film. It's not everyday you get such a perfect combination of narcissism, charisma, abrasiveness, and attention-seeking.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:23 AM   #15 (permalink)
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And Johnny Rotten has got to be my favorite frontman of all time. Also my favorite person to watch on film. It's not everyday you get such a perfect combination of narcissism, charisma, abrasiveness, and attention-seeking.
He's pretty awesome live. I saw Public Image Ltd. live a while back and he put on quite a show (as did the rest of the band, especially the guitarist).
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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He's pretty awesome live. I saw Public Image Ltd. live a while back and he put on quite a show (as did the rest of the band, especially the guitarist).
Jealous.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Well, The New York Dolls, which The Sex Pistols were directly influenced by. Also, The Ramones, The Stooges, The Damned, The MC5, The Dictators, etc.
With the exception of the Damned and The Ramones none of the others were punk bands, they may have been an influence on punk hence the term proto-punk, but they were all bands where another label was better suited.

Also the Ramones version of punk was different to that of the Sex Pistols.

As for where punk started the debate should really be London vs New York circa 1976.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The Ramones WEREN'T a manufactured band.

Having gimmicked names, playing well known rock n roll covers, being managed by their record label president's wife.
Sure they were, just in a different way.

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As for where punk started the debate should really be London vs New York circa 1976.
I think it should be about which was more culturally relevant, not which started first.
No point having a scene if it doesn't catch on and nobody listens to it.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well why don't we throw in just about every garage rock band ever formed into the mix too if we're gonna start counting every vaguely punk forerunner band? I hear the same argument against Black Sabbath not being the first heavy metal band when people mention everybody from Led Zeppelin to the Kinks. Punk as it is and always has been known started in England (the CBGB's scene was really just an art rock scene that had the Ramones). And the Sex Pistols were the catalyst for this sound.

And did the Damned form before the Sex Pistols? And if so did they sound like the Damned as we know them? I know they released a single and an album before the Sex Pistols, but that's not what we're talking about.

Also the Ramones were across an ocean. Almost nobody on either side of the pond had any idea what the other scene sounded like until they all started releasing albums. So for all intents and purposes no band in England sounded like the Sex Pistols at the time.
The Ramones are a vaguely Punk forerunner band? You do know that The Pistols were influenced directly by The New York Dolls, and also by The Ramones, right? Even if you want to take out the Protopunk bands, The Sex Pistols still didn't create Punk. In fact, read the excellent book Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History Of Punk. Not only is it a fantastic read, but it talks about how the New York Punks were pissed off because they felt that the British Punks ripped off their music their style, their attitude, and got all the credit for it.

You do realize just as many Punk bands were influenced by The Ramones as they were The Pistols, right.

I gotta admit, though, I did overreact a bit. I don't really hate The Sex Pistols. I think they're a good band. I'm just in a pissy mood because I got into an argument with a retard who completely denies The Ramones place in Punk history, and basically told me that Punk begins and ends with The Pistols. Are The Pistols an important band? Of course. Would I call them as important as The Ramones. MAYBE, but I would only consider The Pistols equal importance, not more important. And I still prefer The Ramones' music.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You do know that The Pistols were influenced directly by The New York Dolls, and also by The Ramones, right?
..............and the New York Dolls by the Rolling Stones, so based on your logic the Rolling Stones could be the first punk band.
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If you can't deal with the fact that there are 6+ billion people in the world and none of them think exactly the same that's not my problem. Just deal with it yourself or make actual conversation. This isn't a court and I'm not some poet or prophet that needs everything I say to be analytically critiqued.
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