OK, so I provided a commonly referred to sub-genre, surf punk, a prominent band in that field, Agent Orange, and an explanation of why I think it's more surf rock than surf punk.

Here's another. Crust punk. Prominent band in this genre, Tragedy. Sounds closer to crossover and early 90's metalcore in most places to me. Lyrically they have an anti-establishment ethos, sure. But then that would mean a driving force behind punk is the ethos and the politics (vegan, anarchist, nihilist, etc) more than sound. And if that's the case then political climate and awareness is as integral to defining what 'punk' is as any of the music they play. Thus, the original anti-conservative climate in which the punk bands of the 70's and 80's started and "matured" is intrinsic to the music itself. Double thus, punk is dead. Doesn't mean people don't play fast, sloppy, rock songs. Just means it's not 'punk rock'.

You have not provided any logic, evidence, thought behind your post. But in my short time back, I haven't had any reason to think you would.

****ing roasted

No wave
Post punk
2 tone
deathrock
jazz punk
crunkcore
pop punk
synthpunk

There are a couple of punk subgenres.

crunkcore? that's considered punk?

Punk Rock is all about hair.

And hardcore is about the lack thereof.

I'm still struggling with what defines them as 'punk' as opposed to 'rock'. That's the question that has to answered for this argument to be settled. Is punk defined along musical lines? Or is it lyrics and ethos? Can't say I'm familiar with 'No wave', '2 tone' or 'crunkcore' but all the others are easily classified as rock music. Truly not trying to be difficult here. I've gone through this thread and no one is defining what they think the punk sound is (outside of a conversation about downstrokes). I think we need more clarity and distance between 'punk' and 'rock', otherwise it's going to keep being 'u.' 'no u.' 'no u!'


Sorry, didn't see this if you had explained it earlier.

So what you're saying is production values define punk rock? Or the professionalism of the musicians?

I'm glad you caught that.

How on earth is jazz punk rock?

Must have missed that one. But I'll flip that, what makes 'jazz punk' not 'jazz rock'? Like what is the defining characteristic that moves it away from rock music to punk.