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Old 10-14-2009, 05:41 PM   #381 (permalink)
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El-P is totally underrated as a huge influence in hip hop.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:10 PM   #382 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grotesque Head View Post
I'd personally say that Rakim would rank above the following in your list in terms of influence in Hip Hop:

Public Enemy
The Beastie Boys
Will Smith

and maybe Run DMC.

That's in terms of influence on the music itself, as opposed to its mainstream success.
dude beastie boys and publim enemy evoloved rap furhter than rakim could ever imagine. will smith won the first ever rap grammy, rakim didnt do that, did he? no. rakim is overrated no boudbt he inflenced hipphop but he definitley isnt as strong an i flunece as the people i mentioned.

the guy who said the thing about Afrikka Bambatta is right enough though. But in all honesty it was a toss up between tem and krs one i didnt want to have both so krs one won out

although i respect all those guys for influencing hip hop culture and rap to be completely honest i dont like any of there music with the exception of numbers 6-10 as u can tell by my favorites liset
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:31 PM   #383 (permalink)
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dude beastie boys and publim enemy evoloved rap furhter than rakim could ever imagine.
No they didn't.

Beastie Boys have never ever been good rappers (you used the term rap, so I assume you're referring to rappers), they do, however, have fantastic production and variety on their albums, which can be equally attributed to their choice of producers (Dust Brothers, for example).

As for Public Enemy, as far as I'm aware, they helped to pioneer a new aggressively political approach to rapping - but in terms of the music itself that's more or less it (I may be very wrong with this).

I personally think you're underestimating Rakim's influence on Hip Hop. Literally all Hip Hop after Eric B. & Rakim bears his influence in it's rapping style (except instrumental Hip Hop, obviously), and it's not a stretch to call him the greatest rapper of all time (although there are other contenders, obviously).

I did say Rakim influenced Hip Hop on a musical level, not a mainstream popularity level - so Will Smith's grammy win is irrelevant.

Anyway, it's all opinions in the end so who cares.
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Old 10-15-2009, 06:40 AM   #384 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grotesque Head View Post
No they didn't.

Beastie Boys have never ever been good rappers (you used the term rap, so I assume you're referring to rappers), they do, however, have fantastic production and variety on their albums, which can be equally attributed to their choice of producers (Dust Brothers, for example).

As for Public Enemy, as far as I'm aware, they helped to pioneer a new aggressively political approach to rapping - but in terms of the music itself that's more or less it (I may be very wrong with this).

I personally think you're underestimating Rakim's influence on Hip Hop. Literally all Hip Hop after Eric B. & Rakim bears his influence in it's rapping style (except instrumental Hip Hop, obviously), and it's not a stretch to call him the greatest rapper of all time (although there are other contenders, obviously).

I did say Rakim influenced Hip Hop on a musical level, not a mainstream popularity level - so Will Smith's grammy win is irrelevant.

Anyway, it's all opinions in the end so who cares.
i was half cut when i wrote that last post so you'll have to ignore most of it.

and i'm not talking on terms of lyrical ability. I'm talking about the people who helped evolve rap and take it to the next level, the beastie boys might have been terrible rappers (no where near as good as rakim) but they did more for rap because they created a completely different style. And public enemy (imo) did more for rap than rakim as well. But you already knew this due to my list and the constant back and forth in the last few posts lol
like i said rakim was in my original list but he didnt make the final cut, big deal. If i had listed 20 rappers he would be there.
Also, i think will smith IS a good rapper as far as entertainment goes although he's not lyrically that good (let's face it he's not really a rapper he's an entertainer). And he did more for rap/hip hop culture by bringing it to the masses and showing that you don't have to swear/cuss in rap records to make good music or talk about guns and violence.

I was talking about rap/hip hop culture overall. I wasn't rating them as lyricists. The same way i might say one band is influential to their genre but they can still be a crap band. You don't have to be amazing at creating music to influence it and help it evolve.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:58 AM   #385 (permalink)
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no order cept lurch
BIG LURCH 3XL & Cosmic Slop Shop
Brotha Lynch Hung
Ganksta N-I-P
Spice 1
Mac Dre
Ice Cube
Gravediggaz
Notorious BIG
Nate Dogg
X Raided
changing it up a bit.
Big Lurch
Mac Dre
E-40
Flatlinerz
Notorious BIG
Big Bone
Brotha Lynch Hung
Luni Coleone
ESHAM (East Side Hoes And Money)
Insane Poetry
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Old 10-15-2009, 06:33 PM   #386 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grotesque Head View Post
No they didn't.

Beastie Boys have never ever been good rappers (you used the term rap, so I assume you're referring to rappers), they do, however, have fantastic production and variety on their albums, which can be equally attributed to their choice of producers (Dust Brothers, for example).

As for Public Enemy, as far as I'm aware, they helped to pioneer a new aggressively political approach to rapping - but in terms of the music itself that's more or less it (I may be very wrong with this).

I personally think you're underestimating Rakim's influence on Hip Hop. Literally all Hip Hop after Eric B. & Rakim bears his influence in it's rapping style (except instrumental Hip Hop, obviously), and it's not a stretch to call him the greatest rapper of all time (although there are other contenders, obviously).

I did say Rakim influenced Hip Hop on a musical level, not a mainstream popularity level - so Will Smith's grammy win is irrelevant.

Anyway, it's all opinions in the end so who cares.
WHAT

No, man. Beastie Boys are fantastic rappers, they're incredibly smart. They referenced everything in the world ever, they're like what Family Guy wishes it could be. Plus, they're some of the funnest people in hip hop that have existed; they crushed racial boundaries and made hip hop accessible to anyone while still being creative and SMART.



Public Enemy influenced everything. Chuck D was one of the early rappers to experiment with rhyme schemes and moved hip hop (lyrically) into a socially conscious monster. He pretty much pioneered a variation of hardcore rap. Plus, they were the first to deploy a comic foil (Flava Flav) to create perfect balance, and the production is equally important, revolutionary, and influential. They REALLY messed with sampling and did a lot for it, and the Bomb Squad also valued spaciousness as well as relentlessness - and made it work. Their instrumentals were energetic, chaotic, interesting and NEW. Flava Flav was also one of the first visual spectaculars in rap music. Seriously, man. No one fucks with Public Enemy, they did it all.

I wouldn't argue Rakim being more influential than them, I'd say they had relatively equal contributions to hip hop. Rakim basically invented modern lyrical technique, but, personally, I don't think his music really stands the test of time. I would never argue and say he's not good or call him unimportant, he IS in the top 10, indubitably. The only reason that I could say that Public Enemy and the Beastie Boys were maybe more influential than Rakim was the fact that they became household names, and have stood against the test of time.

Bleh, if you wanted to place Rakim above people in his list, you could have easily used the Sugarhill Gang or A Tribe Called Quest or Big Daddy Kane. Not that these people aren't important, but Rakim definitely surpasses them, and I don't even think I'd put any of them in a top 10 based on importance.

By the way, nah, I don't think Will Smith did much for rap. Just because he was clean he got an award, big deal.

Last edited by Jester; 10-15-2009 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:07 PM   #387 (permalink)
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I agree with everything Jester said.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:29 AM   #388 (permalink)
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if you think rakim should be in that list purely because of his lyrical ability then you can't say big daddy kane should be replaced when he's one of the greatest lyricists in the rap world. Big daddy kane was stringing together multiple syllable rhymes, alliteration, metaphors, assonance rhyming ect just as early if not earlier than rakim was.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:43 AM   #389 (permalink)
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Russian hip-hop best:

Basta
Noize MC
Guf
Smoky Mo
Krec
Marselle
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:05 AM   #390 (permalink)
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Bleh, if you wanted to place Rakim above people in his list, you could have easily used the Sugarhill Gang or A Tribe Called Quest or Big Daddy Kane. Not that these people aren't important, but Rakim definitely surpasses them, and I don't even think I'd put any of them in a top 10 based on importance.
No. A Tribe Called Quest should definitely be in the list, without doubt. They may not have played a part in influencing anything that has ever been hugely mainstream, but they certainly don't sound dated the way Rakim does to me now. Rakim did a lot for influencing mainstream rap that came after him, and is a clear influence in an unbelievable amount of rappers. But ATCQ developed a completely unique jazz rap sound, and along with De La Soul (who I don't consider to be as unique or influential) completely paved the way for alternative hip-hop. And while rap was starting to turn to darker themes and violence, ATCQ made jazzy songs with incredible beats, fantastic samples, and often nonsensical, fun, intelligent lyrics. I'd put them in top 5 for sure, over the Jungle Brothers, who had a much more focused influence and didn't truly open up the new genre like ATCQ.

Just my take. And I don't listen to that much rap, so I could be wrong.
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