Kanye West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy


Dark Fantasy - the intro to the album. Kanye is starting to receive an audience, and his fame is starting to rise. hence the phrase, "can we get much higher."

Gorgeous - Kanye is describing what it's like to receive this recognition, and is saying that it's not as glamorous as it seems, and he is making fun of fame in a couple ways here.

Power - Kanye is almost at the peak of his fame, he thinks of himself higher than anyone else, and he thinks he is the most powerful man in the world.

All of the Lights - This is the peak of Kanye's fame. He is famous, has a show every night, and is extremely recognised across the world.

Monster - Kanye is again describing the fame he has received, but this time in a more menacing way. It seems that he is more threatening than he was in Gorgeous, and he is willing to destroy anyone to get what he wants. He doesn't know that his fame is ruining his inner self, and he can't think straight.

So Appalled - Kanye is disgusted by fame. He thinks that he could have everything he wanted, but it's boring after a while. He's looking for a woman, and if he finds one, he'll leave fame behind.

Devil in a New Dress - This is a highly sexual song, he's found the woman he thinks he will be with forever. It's describing how he thinks he corrupted her, but he doesn't care.

Runaway - All of the Lights was the peak of the album, this is the lowest point(and my favorite song on the album). The same girl in Devil, Kanye is realising that he ruined her. He feels horrible, almost to the point of suicide. At the end of the song, he falls asleep.

Hell of a Life - Kanye wakes up, and wants to make some major changes to his life. He's going to forget about the girl, and chase a new one. This song isn't entirely literal, it describes what would happen if he HAD ended up with the girl in the last two songs, and at the end of Hell of a Life, he says "that's one hell of a life," but in a way that's almost regretful, that he wouldn't want to go that way.

Blame Game - this song is actually a metaphor for Kanye's relationship with fame. It can be good for him, but it also almost ruined his life. This song is sort of a reflection, looking back on the events that happened in the album. It's sort of a way to say, "what if?" What if he had ended up with that girl?

Lost in the World - One of the saddest songs on the album, next to Runaway. This song is what will happen to Kanye once fame leaves him. He abused fame, and now he is in a way, "Lost in the World." In Monster, he destroyed anyone he could to get fame, and now he is lonely. He ends up dying alone.

This is what I think the album is saying, and that's why this is one of my favorite albums of all time.

Kanye's "Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" is what would have happened if he HAD ended up with the girl in Devil and Runaway, instead of following fame. What IF he had left fame for her? He wouldn't have ended up alone. He fantasizes about her every night, and he never ends up happy in the end.

So it's not really much of a concept album then. Just a variety of ways to discuss the subject of fame.

May as well say Danny Brown's XXX was a concept album about drugs at that rate.

are you kidding me? i just took ten minutes to type that all out. It tells a story, that's a concept album.

No. Next you're going to say Good Kid Mad City is a concept album.. Not on my watch, I'm a badass after all.

that is a concept..
do you not know what the term "concept album" means?

Going on about how famous you are on every track isn't telling a story, even if the tone shifts.

that's not what i said...you obviously didn't read the post. it's okay if you don't like hip-hop, or you don't understand the message that the album was trying to convey.

I did read it all.

I think the concept for almost every rap album is more or less "I'm the shit"

this is hopeless. the album is his Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, and every song follows that concept, while telling a story. i don't see what's to miss here.

^I see what you're saying and I agree with you. There may not be a real "discernible" story, but this album DEFINITELY abides by a certain theme throughout the album, thus making it a concept album.

If that's the definition of a concept album then most albums are concept albums.

Surely the idea of a concept album is to tell a story over the record with intertwining themes.
I don't know why it matters what's a concept album and what isn't.
As you all probably know by now, I like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, would I say it's a concept album? No. Does it matter? No.
And to argue that is ridiculous. We're all interpreting the album in the way we think it's meant to be taken.
The only way to know for sure what the true meaning of an album is would be to ask the artist themselves.
To say "no you're wrong, the album is about Y not X" is stupid because just like musical taste, interpretation is subjective.
It seems a little pretentious to me that people are trying to slate this album for not following a 'concept'. I wasn't aware to release a good album it needed to follow a 'concept'

Burn!

I haven't seen a single person in this thread "trying slate this album for not following a concept".

The implication throughout seems to be that if you think MBDTF is a concept album you're stupid.

Despite interpretation being subjective. Nobody is right or wrong. However;


This post would imply MBDTF and GKMC are definitely not concept albums, yet the album that was discussed favourably earlier (Labour Days) seems to be unanimously considered conceptual despite no evidence. To me this looks like a case of the album I like is good, the album you like is bad.

Even if this were a concept, there is evidence in this thread ^ of the concept being diminished because of its nature.

Really, I'm not here to start an argument, but the new member with the cat avatar was giving his opinions on why he thinks MBDTF is conceptual and was basically told "no you're wrong"
Vintage Music Banter logic.

you must have missed this part.

How is that an example of "slating the album"?

because I see no evidence saying it either is or isn't, when Catsandmusic said he thought it was, the implication was he was stupid for thinking so.
How does a difference in interpretation make one party less intelligent than the other?

Did you actually read what I wrote or not?

Let's not even go into how much more of a concept album Labor Days is compared to the other two mentioned.

seriously, just stop ****posting.

I truly appreciate the effort you put in to explain the concept of MBDTF, but please relax. And the comment was quite clearly not aimed at you.

you're not allowed to "insult" other members? what would forums be without that?

They'd be friendlier places to contribute to. We'd like new members to stay and become regulars but if a newb sees people just flinging blatant insults around at others, I don't think they'd want to stay here.

i suppose i can understand that, i just don't like the whole "if your opinion isn't nice, keep it to yourself!" thing.
sometimes you have to be blunt, while that doesn't necessarily constitute blatant insults for no reason, you still have to be blunt.

If you grow some pubes talk to us about our insult policy.

I was kind of disappointed when I saw Kanye and Kim Kardashian were actually serious, she was pregnant, etc.
I hate Kim Kardashian, I guess I thought Kanye would have went for someone a bit smarter and classier. If you look at Jay-Z and Beyonce in comparison, Beyonce and Kim couldn't be more different. It doesn't really matter though, hopefully he'll produce some good music about being a father and such!

Oh hai dur James :)

He could make a concept album about fatherhood.

are you kidding me? this is why i hate mods.

Oh I didn't say "hold back"! You're allowed to give your opinion, definitely. But it's better to respond to people who don't agree with you or whatnot in a mature way. Basically, don't stoop to the low level of throwing personal insults around - like saying "oh you're such a ****ing idiot because you don't like such-and-such band" or whatever.

i get that.

Now I follow that the theme of fame is prevalent, and there is a point to be made for that. However, this would allow me to call albums like Neil Young's Zuma (or really almost all of his albums if you ask me) concept albums because the songs thread together unifying themes (for the aforementioned album, it would be love in various forms). Sometimes I think this can be the case, like Animal Collective's recurring food references on Strawberry Jam, or maybe their "alien band" sound on Centipede Hz.

Many albums, though, attempt to thread together unified sounds or themes so it doesn't feel like a pile of songs they just wanted to get out there; this is probably thanks to Sgt. Peppers, one of the loosest examples of a concept album I'm aware of - the only things tying it together are the unity of sound, certain story "signifiers" at the beginning and the end, and, thrown in for its own credibility, sound cues that enhance the conceptual experience. I wouldn't argue it to be a concept album because the mid-section really doesn't carry the story, and sometimes the most cohesive tracks don't even tie the theme together. Really, it's the Beatles telling you stories as a band that's not supposed to be the Beatles - while it's very interesting and postmodern, it doesn't have much in the way of a narrative arc.

I find very similar issues with the idea of this album as a concept album (which is not necessarily a detraction, though many use it as a pro in discussions of it). It has the opening track meant to set up the storyline, much like the Sgt. Peppers intro track.
Then "Gorgeous" explores his status as a rich/famous black man, and the general status of the black man, in America (this is most definitely among the best tracks on the album).
Then we get "Power," where we find out just how rich and arrogant Kanye can be (well maybe not but it's a good estimate); this is a pretty vague topic though, much like how "Lucy..." on SP's related to the theme of the album in that we found out just how high-flying the Beatles can really get (also, Psychedelic music).
Then, "All of the Lights." Now, I'm pretty sure this song wasn't talking about the shows he was doing and publicity he was gaining in his rise to fame - he discusses some dispute he had with a baby mama, and how he can't see his daughter. This is where we get all "Getting Better," (almost literally, since both speakers have a nasty past), where the narrative arc is very loose, only being tied in by some reference to the "theme" (there are a couple of references of fame (the lights and such), and some sound cues/unity to maintain the conceptual conceit.
"Monster" really has no bearing on the any theme of the album; it's an unabashed brag-fest, and though Bon Iver's intro and conclusion may imply some relation to fame, no verse really touches on the horrible effect it has on the company present.
"So Appalled," even with a RZA hook, has to be among my least favorite songs on the album. That aside, this track does somewhat get back to the point of fame in the way you claimed it was being portrayed here: Kanye has some odd imagery relating to fame (though not always as deprecating or surreal as one would expect on a track titled as it is); Jay Z's power anxieties and excesses (probably the most potent example); and Pusha's coke and fame combo that slips by the end much like the past two artists. While this does thread in the idea of fame in a more concrete way, it still does fulfill some storyline; it merely discusses the idea.
With "Devil in a New Dress," there is the issue of being with a woman who wants your wealth, Ross entirely counters these notions in his verse, and Kanye really doesn't stick to them that well. It transitions very well into
"Runaway," which could imply a relation, though really this could stand for about any girl Kanye's been with and could have been fitted into any album; the theme of fame isn't even implied here. Pusha's verse further establishes the basis of the track as cheating, faithlessness, and regret/arrogance. (Btw, that song is probably the best on the album.)
"Hell of a Life," another lady track, certainly fulfills the mini concept about relationships in the album, but overall that's not what the album's about. Plus, this song is just corny.
So "Blame Game" should close this little concept out, but "Lost in the World" contains reference to a woman as well. Then we get this bookender from Gil-Scott Heron (a very well selected one at that) to seemingly wrap up the album as about the black man's struggle, the American's struggle, Kanye's struggle, etc., though it doesn't much pertain to some grand idea the album maintains throughout.

And I bolded that bit in your quote because I don't think this can really be about his regret with that relationship when he doesn't even mention the girl until halfway through the album, with no real reference to her situation until then.

Usually there needs to be some narrative arc though, not just the illusion of one created by sound unity/cues, vague themes, and cohesion.[/quote]
It only matters when it is an integral part of its value as one of the greatest albums in its field, which I would say is so in this case.
Where's the fun in that?
Yes, to only use that much of an argument and not supply reasons why it is about y not x is stupid.
This has already been covered above.

Now I want you to keep in mind that when I entered the conversation I was finding this tactic of discussion dominant:

and when i retorted:

I got:

So when you try to catch me on some:

And hit me with some:

I'm gonna call you on it because it seems like you walked in a little late and it shows.

Besides, as said before, yes, there is right and wrong. If one can provide reasons as to why the artistic merit of a is greater than that of b, and another cannot provide such reason, then one can be right, and another can be wrong.

and then i supplied my opinion

I never said you didn't, i said you introduced yourself to the debate with a hint of arrogance.

We need to get Kanye in here to clarify this

lol

I bet Pitchfork would clarify this for us ;)

lmao i hope you're joking though