I love it. MBDTF is my favourite, followed by Late Registration. Fighting with The College Dropout for third place. It's just so honest and emotional.

Because it still takes skill to play the instrument, where as auto-tuning just hides sh*tty singers behind effects. I don't have a problem with auto-tuning itself but please don't try to pass the musicians off who use it as talented if they don't sound good without it (in general, not accusing you of do doing this).

Idk, maybe because the artist is worthless without the audience? Unless part of the performance is you being an a$$hole, like the comedians known for roasting the audience, it's probably in your best interest to not be a jerkoff.

I'm not sure how complicated it is to use autotune but I am sure it doesn't consist of just signing into it then releasing the song.
As for your edit, it still doesn't affect the music whatsoever.

You realize in most cases the artists singing are not the ones doing the auto-tuning right? Kanye might auto-tune himself but that goes to his credibility as a producer which I will never diss him for. I still hate his emcee presence.

Who cares? The finished product is what matters.

Who cares? I for one, and I'm sure every producer making the beats for these musically challenged stage puppets want the credit they deserve. You don't give credit to the frontman of an amazing rock band for the sick drumming. Why is this any different?

Ever heard of The Neptunes? Timbaland? Kanye (before he made it big as a 'musically challenged stage puppet')?

The producers who are talented enough to stand on their own, do so. The others stand in the shadows of the likes of Kanye because their craft isn't good enough to stand on it's own two feet.

We are discussing the difference between auto-tuning and other instrumental effects. I don't know what point your trying to make but it has nothing to do with the conversation I just started with James.

It takes talent to make something that sounds interesting and invigorating. You don't see any old schlep off the street picking up autotune and instantly making a hit record or innovative music. You still have to have a creative drive.

This traditionalist view of what talent is (playing your own instruments, singing without enhancements) is old hat and i'm tired of hearing it. A person making interesting music with autotune (who has a ****ty voice behind that autotune) is more indispensable than a guitar virtuoso. Creativity wins everytime.

Yeh, and I gave Kanye credit for it, but that has nothing to do with him as an emcee. That is his ability as a producer. My point is the thing I found most interesting about his music is all in his production. Maybe you like his lyrics/performance, but it does nothing for me.

Take an artist like Jason Derulo, who doesn't do his auto-tuning. He is replacable with any other good looking guy with the confidence to rock out on stage. I mean did you hear his live performance on New Years NYC? The dude can barely sing. His producers make him sound good, and that is why I said:

Most of the people using auto-tune ARE NOT the ones making the interesting music. If you don't understand that you need to take a step back and look at how the music industry works. Half these people don't even write the songs. So what exactly are you trying to give them credit for that is music related? Like I said, musically challenged stage puppets. They are performers not musicians. The music industry cares more about marketability than talent. They can fake talent, they've got that sh*t down to a science.

Edit: Auto-tuning/voice enhancement is part of that science. Like I said earlier I don't have a problem with the auto-tuning itself.