The Batlord

I know nothing about grime, so the specifics of the possible genre splits are beyond me, but anyway... Drone originated with Earth, which was a band from the Seattle grunge scene, so originally it really wasn't a sub-genre of metal, but nobody questions whether Sunn O))) is metal. Granted, they, and many other drone bands, have introduced explicit metal influences, but a genre's origins don't necessarily dictate its present.

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John Wilkes Booth

lol no its not cause that wasn't a distinct feature of either of those genres. rock artists were doing that prior to either of those genres existence. hip hop introduced a unique format, which grime basically adopted.

Urban Hat€monger ?

It's not exclusive to hip hop at all.
You'll find it used in reggae, dancehall, beat poetry, funk, soul & jazz long before hip hop ever became a thing.

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John Wilkes Booth

ok i could be wrong.... can i get some examples? i mean not like this one song the guy sorta raps... do you have an example of an artist or group where the emphasis was consistently on a person rapping over a beat.

Urban Hat€monger ?

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Cuthbert

Grime is a form of electronic dance music.

Rapping is something you do. Most Grime MC's vocal a range of music but that doesn't mean Grime isn't it's own genre. Plus actual Hip-Hop has always been on the mix CD's.

All of the MC's are shit anyway and don't define the genre.

Well, they did...

Grime can mean two things.

Umbrella term for British made Hip-Hop which would include people like Giggs, or, the actual genre which would not.

The majority of people would go with the first one. You can't tell me records like Wiley's Ice Rink are 'rap' or not something completely new.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFptXHkYb1M

It's dance music.

Cuthbert

What way do you not see a difference? The sound? There is a difference. I remember when I heard I Luv U for the first time and remember thinking 'what genre is this '. Everyone was calling it Garage but it didn't sound like it, I'd never heard anything like it tbh. Compare it to Shanks & Bigfoot's 'Sweet Like Chocolate', DJ Pied Piper 'Do U Really Like It'. Totally different. Around this time as well, journalists were using terms like '8 bar', and 'dark Garage' / 'grimy Garage' to describe the sound the production was taking. That's how the term 'Grime' became a thing.

Ninetails has it about right in this thread. Wiley (most people would say he is the biggest pioneer) was in Pay As You Go who were a Garage crew (check 'Champagne Dance'). He also produced 'Nicole's Groove' in the 90's under the name Phaze One which is clearly a Garage record, but sounds nothing like Eskimo or Ice Rink which are Grime. Megaman (of So Solid) was also one of Wiley's influences/mentors.

Pretty much all of the big boys and pioneers of the sound, were Garage heads before Grime became a thing. You can hear the Garage influence in producers like Royal-T, Preditah, Rapid and so on.

As for DnB, not too clued up on that, I've never really been a fan, but most of the yardie type MC's were junglists in the 90's. There is a track on Kano's first album called Reload It and you can hear the DnB influence on that.

I'd probably say Garage influenced the production more, and DnB the vocals, or rapping style if you like. Originally anyway.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26jo6EA_tkU

Wiley in 1998.

John Wilkes Booth

it seems like any spoken word/non-melodic vocals is the same as rap to you. i'm not denying the influence but ultimately rapping is distinct from spoken word and rapping over chopped up beats is something that hip hop introduced to the world as far as i can tell.

John Wilkes Booth

i'd have to listen to that specific one to comment but i have heard for example dizzee rascal's first album and people say its grime. basically to me it sounds like rap music from another region.

and once again rap is a common term for hip hop music i dunno why people get so caught up with that. rap is called rap because it was the first genre to focus on an MC rapping to a beat like that. grime basically seems like a variation of that kind of music. and rap music started as dance music too.

John Wilkes Booth

i'm not denying any of this history.. it's not like i'm saying it's not a distinct style but that seems like all it is to me, not a brand new genre that doesn't have its basis in the previous 30 years of american hip hop. but let me ask you something... is that video an example of "garage"? if so then that vocal style sounds like it was taken from rap as well. i can show u krs tracks where the vocals sound similar to that from 1980 something lol.