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Old 06-05-2010, 12:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default I need some guitar suggestions.

I've been playing a cheap acoustic guitar with nylon strings for about 6 months now. A friend and I are going to start a shamelessly nostalgic band so now I'm gonna need an electric guitar. The problem: I'm not sure which one will suit the sound we're going for best. I'd like to have something that can find or make common ground between my favorite guitarists: Daniel Ash, Bubba Dupree, Kevin Shields, Johnny Marr, Brian McMahan, and John Reis. A hard-hitting, sonic, ethereal, metallic jangle but a bit deeper and that can fit well in basic rock structures is what I'm looking for.

I also need it to compliment his Fender Bass VI, which he likes to play "with a lot of treble"; he's got it sounding like the bass in the oldschool Jame's Bond movie themesong.

Can anyone help me out with some advice on what kind of setup I should be looking at?

The guy at guitarcenter gave me a raised eyebrow and suggested a Fender Baritone Telecaster through a Vox AC30, also with a lot of treble. If that wasn't enough, he recommended I build up an arsenal of effects pedals or get a gt10 if I didn't want to deal with a bunch of pedals at my feet (which I don't, seeing as I don't know much about them as is and the gt10 is always lauded for its versatility). Just thought I'd ask here first before I decide to inadvertently declare bankruptcy.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Your bassist shouldn't be so attached to that tone, it might sound great on its own but almost every song or situation needs a different thing from the bass, and if he's got a lot of treble his sound will be stepping all over yours in the mix.

GT-10? Great idea if you know why you need it, pointless waste of money if it gets used for the odd thing and not much else. I have one, I love it, but I need a lot out of my equipment. You might be better off with something else.

I'll leave further advice for Dave, since he'll know more about your tastes than I do.
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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you were recommended a baritone tele??? they make those?

*googling*

not sure what that clerk was smoking but i'm not finding any mass produced Fender Baritone Telecasters, aside from the Bajo Sexto from the Custom Shop. besides, your 'bass' player is actually already playing a baritone guitar as opposed to an actual bass guitar.

a normal telecaster would suit your needs just fine, as would a jazzmaster or jaguar (especially if you're leaning more towards Kevin Shields / J Mascis styles). even an old school strat with 3 single coils would likely work, humbuckers probably won't sound as cool to you.

the Vox amp should be fine, though there's no accounting for taste, i've got a small 40W Marshall that has enough treble to make ears bleed and peel paint.

as for the effects necessary for the jangly wall of sound, personally i prefer multiple single units over a multi-effect box. there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods and it's really up to you to make the choice.

for an army of pedals
the pros
- relatively cheap - single pedals normally run around the $100-150 price point, if you don't mind buying used you can get most basic types for around half price with luck and patience.
- can start small (1 fuzz + 1 reverb = excellent start toss in a delay/echo and you'll be laughing)
- simple to use (most pedals don't have more than 4 knobs and 2 functions)
- can mix and match (for example: putting the distortion before or after a wah will have a noticeable effect on its tone)
- you can be the cool guy that shares gear with his friends at the jams.

the cons
- power usage - rechargeable 9volts aren't the cheapest, they can be a hassle to change, some pedals need specific plugs for power adapters. if you're going to use adapters you'll want to invest in a couple of heavy duty power bars as well.
- transportation/setup - i have to use a freaking suitcase with wheels for mine, weighs a solid 50 pounds for about 20 pedals. plugging them all in and making sure everything has good juice takes another 10-15 minutes too.


for a multieffect unit like the gt-10
pros
compact - comparatively speaking, these things are puny.
power usage - 1 unit, 1 plug. no batteries.
versatile - they offer oodles of different tones but not sure about full pedal placement customization.
software updates - some companies offer online patches to improve tones and functionality to their devices.

cons
size - they tend to be a little bulky. it's less hassle than a dozen stompboxes and takes up less floor space but you generally can't stick them in your pockets in a pinch.
price - the initial cost for a multi-effect unit will be more than a couple of single pedals. though it is MUCH cheaper in the long run.


one last thing to mention in stompboxes vs. multi - this is more of a personal preference thing as opposed to a pro / con. a multieffect unit seems to be an all in one solution provider. expanding upon or adding to them seems like more hassle than its worth, since whatever company you're dealing with would have a new unit that features whatever you feel is lacking from the old one with even more new stuff.

ultimately it's up to you, if you already know what sound you want and have a clear vision of what it entails and you find a multi-unit can provide those tones for you without hassle then your answer is clear. but if every multi-unit you try is only almost there and still feels like it's just missing a little something something, then i'd go for pedals.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I second getting a Jazzmaster or a Jaguar, as alot of the guitar players on your list use one or the other. As for the vox you should probably get an AC15 as they can be quite loud and are pretty sounding for a 15-watt. Hmmm, and if I were you I'd get separate pedals, probably a muff and a delay would do as most amps have reverb and the AC15 has a tremolo.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
A hard-hitting, sonic, ethereal, metallic jangle but a bit deeper and that can fit well in basic rock structures is what I'm looking for.
Personally like MR Dave said a telecaster is your best bet. There neck lipstick pickup can cover all you listed and the ashtray style bridge will give you the most jangly sound sonically possible. Dont get me wrong though pretty much any sound is possible from any guitar with enough tweaking. A Made In Mexico tele can be bought used for around 300 or new 4-500. They are amazing guitars for the prices and easily upgraded/modded. I would check out craigslist and guitar centers used section. Just realize you will have to get it professionally set up NOT BY THEM.

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Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
The guy at guitarcenter gave me a raised eyebrow and suggested a Fender Baritone Telecaster through a Vox AC30, also with a lot of treble. If that wasn't enough, he recommended I build up an arsenal of effects pedals or get a gt10 if I didn't want to deal with a bunch of pedals at my feet (which I don't, seeing as I don't know much about them as is and the gt10 is always lauded for its versatility). Just thought I'd ask here first before I decide to inadvertently declare bankruptcy.
DO NOT listen to those ****ers. They work off commission and try to sell you **** they know nothing about and you don't need. No one looking for a first guitar should ever buy a baritone guitar, unless that's what they know they want. First off you should not buy a single effect without testing out an amp you want. Theres 2 ways to go: (well more but these are the main ones)

1: Modeling Amps have a ton of effects and are pretty easy to manage without having to spend money on unit or pedals. They can sound pretty good from what I have heard. Personally I would try the Roland Cube.

2: Solid State/Tube amps are more straight forward 1-3 channels with much less effects built in. They are great if you plan to run effects through in a loop fashion. Personally I use a solid state Fender 2x12 and always run through its clean channel. I get all effects from individual pedals and only reverb from the spring box built in. (I recommend solid state cus its cheaper lighter and simpler to maintain. Otherwise go tube, I know I will once the money comes my way.)

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not sure what that clerk was smoking but i'm not finding any mass produced Fender Baritone Telecasters, aside from the Bajo Sexto from the Custom Shop. besides, your 'bass' player is actually already playing a baritone guitar as opposed to an actual bass guitar.
He was smoking commission

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as for the effects necessary for the jangly wall of sound, personally i prefer multiple single units over a multi-effect box. there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods and it's really up to you to make the choice.
I completely agree. You seem to mention most pro's and cons but to me the biggest con is the tipping point. Single effects seem to have better overall tone and a further customizable sound.
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr dave View Post
you were recommended a baritone tele??? they make those?

*googling*

not sure what that clerk was smoking but i'm not finding any mass produced Fender Baritone Telecasters, aside from the Bajo Sexto from the Custom Shop.
Erg that was a mistake on my part. His reccomendation was the Fender VG Stratocaster played as a baritone via the tuning knob. Just looked that **** up, sounds neat but why the hell would he reccomend another baritone?

Quote:
for an army of pedals
the pros
- relatively cheap - single pedals normally run around the $100-150 price point, if you don't mind buying used you can get most basic types for around half price with luck and patience.
- can start small (1 fuzz + 1 reverb = excellent start toss in a delay/echo and you'll be laughing)
- simple to use (most pedals don't have more than 4 knobs and 2 functions)
- can mix and match (for example: putting the distortion before or after a wah will have a noticeable effect on its tone)
- you can be the cool guy that shares gear with his friends at the jams.

the cons
- power usage - rechargeable 9volts aren't the cheapest, they can be a hassle to change, some pedals need specific plugs for power adapters. if you're going to use adapters you'll want to invest in a couple of heavy duty power bars as well.
- transportation/setup - i have to use a freaking suitcase with wheels for mine, weighs a solid 50 pounds for about 20 pedals. plugging them all in and making sure everything has good juice takes another 10-15 minutes too.


for a multieffect unit like the gt-10
pros
compact - comparatively speaking, these things are puny.
power usage - 1 unit, 1 plug. no batteries.
versatile - they offer oodles of different tones but not sure about full pedal placement customization.
software updates - some companies offer online patches to improve tones and functionality to their devices.

cons
size - they tend to be a little bulky. it's less hassle than a dozen stompboxes and takes up less floor space but you generally can't stick them in your pockets in a pinch.
price - the initial cost for a multi-effect unit will be more than a couple of single pedals. though it is MUCH cheaper in the long run.
I'm a fan of 'cheaper in the long run', I think I'll just drop the dough and go for it. Gonna snoop around a bit first, though.

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DO NOT listen to those ****ers. They work off commission and try to sell you **** they know nothing about and you don't need.
I got that feeling as soon as I asked for help. It was scary. I felt like a little ignorant lamb in a cage with a starved lion.

Thx for the help, y'allz.
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Last edited by Mikael; 06-06-2010 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Another thing to keep in mind when shopping for the guitar, is that all guitars (even those of the same model) are different. The first thing I would do is just find a place with a large amount of different guitars, then just strum a few chords, without even plugging them in. That usually can give a feel for what kind of tone it will produce (warm, twangy, dull, whathave ya). Once you've got a model or two in mind, I would play that specific guitar for a good set of time before you buy it. This way, you'll be able to tell if it fits you right. Some guitars I love the tone but hate the feel (big problem with LPs). The last thing I would recommend, especially if you're hell bent on getting the right tone like I am, is to not order it online. As I said before, all guitars are different. I got a friend who makes his own guitars. They're great and one day he built 2 guitars. They were identical (electronics, hardware, design, etc.) right down to the type of tree the wood was from. The only difference was where the tree was grown, and the tones were completely different, like night and day. Good luck and happy hunting.
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Another thing to keep in mind when shopping for the guitar, is that all guitars (even those of the same model) are different. The first thing I would do is just find a place with a large amount of different guitars, then just strum a few chords, without even plugging them in.

this is VERY IMPORTANT advice as well.

especially about not plugging in. an amp can't make up for a bad instrument, it can accentuate or obscure elements of the instrument's tone but ultimately it's up to the quality of the instrument.

if it doesn't provide you with a full and satisfying tone when it's unplugged you WILL end up as one of those guys who's always looking for that last piece of magical gear that will cement his sound into place. aka the guy who ends up wasting all his money on accessories he doesn't need because he never got the right piece of gear in the first place.


as for the VG Strat - holy crap did the clerk start drooling when you asked him for advice? for real. you told him you were going from a cheap acoustic to your first electric and he recommended a $2000-ish instrument with built in synth/modeling pickups??? if you ever go back to that store do yourself a favour and don't EVER ask for an opinion / advice again. specify what you want and don't let them steer you from your decision. that clerk was playing you for a fool and trying to maximize HIS profits at your expense.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's soft and clean instrument but if we want to go really cheap and I have a pair and use them as drum overheads and they sound just great and also do search we really worth checking.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It's soft and clean instrument but if we want to go really cheap and I have a pair and use them as drum overheads and they sound just great and also do search we really worth checking.
...what?
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