We've got a major problem...

Paul Smeenus · 08-07-2013, 01:57 PM

I actually think Lounge-y type posts put the "Banter" in Music Banter and I enjoy the humor and camaraderie of those threads like Member Picture Gallery, Snog/Shag, the sports topics and so forth. I think that a balance can be struck with music topics as well. As for the drama stuff, yeah I think we are better off leaving that behind. It's inevitably going to pop up from time to time but I think an effort could be made to patch them up and move ahead.

**Janszoon** · 08-07-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Arguments are inevitable in discussion. The problem is how they are dealt with. This has not been done adequately for months. By anybody.

I'm not claiming arguments aren't inevitable. What I'm suggesting is that, on a music site, it's healthier if the arguments are about music rather than hot button topics that have absolutely nothing to do with music.

GuitarBizarre · 08-07-2013, 02:13 PM

I'd argue that there's also a few members around who don't seem to get the idea of discussion.

The first two posts in this link are kind of my position on it - http://www.musicbanter.com/indie-alt...zer-why-3.html

I'm not singling out Ki here - plenty of other people do this, and I find it selfish, hollow and disingenuous.

Simply put, people, particularly senior members, or people who want to "turn the forum around", need to take into account the following -

1 - Your opinion is your opinion. Nobody can take away your right to have it.
2 - You can voice it whenever you like
3 - If you choose to voice it, you're doing more than simply holding that opinion. You're placing that opinion into an open field where others can make of it what they will, and expecting them to take it seriously.
4 - If you're placing your opinion into that field, you should do so in the knowledge or expectation that you will be expected to explain it, justify it, and/or defend it if someone disagrees.
5- If you refuse to explain, elaborate upon, justify, or defend the opinion you placed into the open discussion, then you simply are not contributing to that discussion, in fact you actively detract from it by diverting the efforts of others into the black hole and void of debate that your opinion subsequently forms.

It is everyone's right to have an opinion. It is nobodies right to expect others to lay down their opinions in the face of your own, for the sake of not creating a fuss or offending you by asking you to debate with them or elaborate. Say what you want to say, but say it with the conviction and confidence of being able to hold up your end of the bargain that is "discussion", else don't say it, merely continue to think it.

Debate, disagreement, even argument, are not evil and not to be avoided at all costs. They're healthy methods for refining and rethinking positions, thoughts, and opinions. They're the basis of what we discuss here. If you're not prepared to get into those things with others, you're on the wrong website. Hell, you're on the wrong TYPE of website.

Zer0 · 08-07-2013, 02:15 PM

I feel what's making this place less and less interesting is the lack of new members joining up and staying around with a real passion for music. New members with something new and different to contribute and actually investing their time doing it. I'm not quite sure why this is, people use the internet differently today than they did five years ago and I guess most people would rather spend their time on Facebook or Twitter rather than on a forum. It's not just MB though, the music section in my other main forum has noticeably declined over the past few years both in the quality and quantity of posts. It's almost like all new members are signing up here either to spam or just dick about and kill time.

We also can't rely on the same old members to deliver the goods constantly. Quite a lot of long standing members here are adults with jobs and other important commitments and they might not have much time to contribute like they used to. Come September I might not even be around anymore myself due to other priorities.

I think the main focus should be on finding a way to attract interesting new members and keep their interest in this place. Unfortunatly this could be difficult due to the lack of development of this place by the admins and also the attitudes of some members here.

Paedantic Basterd · 08-07-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

I think the main focus should be on finding a way to attract interesting new members and keep their interest in this place. Unfortunatly this could be difficult due to the lack of development of this place by the admins.

I think that the environment is hostile towards new members, or at the very least it isn't fertile enough for them to develop into regular posters. That isn't just the fault of the people signing up though, that's our fault as a community as well.

Key · 08-07-2013, 02:24 PM

@GB

To be fair, I wasn't being selfish or anything of that sort, I was expressing my thoughts toward your initial comment about the people commenting on how the band sucks. I think it's perfectly natural for those who don't like a band to express that even without giving any sources or information, however in my rebuttal toward your original comment, I stated that I personally wouldn't look information up about a band that I don't like, it's not like I was saying everybody works that way, it was a personal opinion which you say is what people should be doing around here. I know you weren't singling me out, but seeing my name in your post causes me to respond to you. And people will always create discussion about a band whether they like it or hate it even if it's not the people who originally stated they don't like the band with no info. And again, I personally said I wouldn't really go in depth about a band I don't like. Again, "personally".

As far as this thread goes, I was part of the drama when I started, but i've learned to stay out of it, which is why I usually only post in my journal nowadays or in one of the lounge threads if i'm feeling up to it.

GuitarBizarre · 08-07-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki

@GB

To be fair, I wasn't being selfish or anything of that sort, I was expressing my thoughts toward your initial comment about the people commenting on how the band sucks. I think it's perfectly natural for those who don't like a band to express that even without giving any sources or information, however in my rebuttal toward your original comment, I stated that I personally wouldn't look information up about a band that I don't like, it's not like I was saying everybody works that way, it was a personal opinion which you say is what people should be doing around here. I know you weren't singling me out, but seeing my name in your post causes me to respond to you. And people will always create discussion about a band whether they like it or hate it even if it's not the people who originally stated they don't like the band with no info. And again, I personally said I wouldn't really go in depth about a band I don't like. Again, "personally".

As far as this thread goes, I was part of the drama when I started, but i've learned to stay out of it, which is why I usually only post in my journal nowadays or in one of the lounge threads if i'm feeling up to it.

Its cool brah.

Zer0 · 08-07-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I think that the environment is hostile towards new members, or at the very least it isn't fertile enough for them to develop into regular posters. That isn't just the fault of the people signing up though, that's our fault as a community as well.

I was just after editing my post to mention that. But there's always been an element of being harsh and unreceptive to noobs here. It was probably even worse a few years ago, I even put up with some crap when I first joined but that didn't put me off the place. But perhaps we do need to make the place more interesting in order to attract interesting members, but it's just hard to find the motivation and time anymore to do that. It could be a chicken and egg situation.

Paedantic Basterd · 08-07-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

I was just after editing my post to mention that. But there's always been an element of being harsh and unreceptive to noobs here. It was probably even worse a few years ago, I even put up with some crap when I first joined but that didn't put me off the place. But perhaps we do need to make the place more interesting in order to attract interesting members, but it's just hard to find the motivation and time anymore to do that. It could be a chicken and egg situation.

As someone who has tried to do interesting things dozens of times here with mixed results, you're absolutely right. Anybody who wants to make change or benefit from the changes others make has a responsibility to pay it forwards and participate in order to earn the environment they wish they had, but the internet is not a place of energy and patience. It is where you come when you've run out and you just want instant gratification.

Paul Smeenus · 08-07-2013, 02:34 PM

I've only been here since February and I felt welcome pretty much from the start

08-07-2013, 02:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
Zer0 ∞ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 3,792	I feel what's making this place less and less interesting is the lack of new members joining up and staying around with a real passion for music. New members with something new and different to contribute and actually investing their time doing it. I'm not quite sure why this is, people use the internet differently today than they did five years ago and I guess most people would rather spend their time on Facebook or Twitter rather than on a forum. It's not just MB though, the music section in my other main forum has noticeably declined over the past few years both in the quality and quantity of posts. It's almost like all new members are signing up here either to spam or just dick about and kill time. We also can't rely on the same old members to deliver the goods constantly. Quite a lot of long standing members here are adults with jobs and other important commitments and they might not have much time to contribute like they used to. Come September I might not even be around anymore myself due to other priorities. I think the main focus should be on finding a way to attract interesting new members and keep their interest in this place. Unfortunatly this could be difficult due to the lack of development of this place by the admins and also the attitudes of some members here. __________________ Last FM \| RYM \| The Final Sound

08-07-2013, 02:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	@GB To be fair, I wasn't being selfish or anything of that sort, I was expressing my thoughts toward your initial comment about the people commenting on how the band sucks. I think it's perfectly natural for those who don't like a band to express that even without giving any sources or information, however in my rebuttal toward your original comment, I stated that I personally wouldn't look information up about a band that I don't like, it's not like I was saying everybody works that way, it was a personal opinion which you say is what people should be doing around here. I know you weren't singling me out, but seeing my name in your post causes me to respond to you. And people will always create discussion about a band whether they like it or hate it even if it's not the people who originally stated they don't like the band with no info. And again, I personally said I wouldn't really go in depth about a band I don't like. Again, "personally". As far as this thread goes, I was part of the drama when I started, but i've learned to stay out of it, which is why I usually only post in my journal nowadays or in one of the lounge threads if i'm feeling up to it.