We've got a major problem...

Trollheart · 08-09-2013, 04:40 PM

Yeah but who loses their job in the end? US is right: the manager always carries the can, and he's always the one the fans blame. I mean, Suarez may be playing ****e but what will fans say? Rodgers can't manage for ****. Always the same. It's like Wolves: how many pretty decent managers have they had and their fans still can't accept that it's the players that are crap. Same with Blackburn.

Sorry, non-footy followers: we now return you to your usual thread.

14232949 · 08-09-2013, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rez

Players are the ones hated or disliked by the entire city. They are also the ones who get much less money the next contract year if they do poorly.

he means proper football, not that NFL guff you American's play.

I have read some of this thread most of it I skipped as it's the same stuff that most of us have been saying for a long time now.

Although on reflection, having a Sopsych attitude and whining and bitching about the mods, who by the way work extremely hard and tirelessly to try and make this a good website and in my opinion cannot be blamed for any of the sites problems as they're invested maximum effort into their responsibilites, whilst contributing sweet fuck all themselves isn't going to help anything.

I think we all need to learn from that famous paedophile Michael Jackson;

"If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change"

The world in this conversation being replaced by Music Banter. Everyone check their own contributions before they complain about others, moderators or the site themselves.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 08-09-2013, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

he means proper football, not that NFL guff you American's play.

I have read some of this thread most of it I skipped as it's the same stuff that most of us have been saying for a long time now.

Although on reflection, having a Sopsych attitude and whining and bitching about the mods, who by the way work extremely hard and tirelessly to try and make this a good website and in my opinion cannot be blamed for any of the sites problems as they're invested maximum effort into their responsibilites, whilst contributing sweet fuck all themselves isn't going to help anything.

I think we all need to learn from that famous paedophile Michael Jackson;

"If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change"

The world in this conversation being replaced by Music Banter. Everyone check their own contributions before they complain about others, moderators or the site themselves.

Well said.

Unknown Soldier · 08-09-2013, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rez

Players are the ones hated or disliked by the entire city. They are also the ones who get much less money the next contract year if they do poorly.

I'm not surprised at that, considering they're a bunch of sissies all dressed up in body armour to just chuck a ball about, whilst only managing to run a few yards before falling over for a rest.

Guybrush · 08-09-2013, 03:34 PM

First off, I agree with the first post. Second, I've mentioned it before, but forum culture - any culture - evolves in response to the environment it finds itself in. If cliquyness or how you'd spell it is rewarded, then the community gets more cliquey people. If productivity is rewarded, you get more productive people. By rewarded, I basically mean how much response it generates - how much attention it gets. Let's say you have some drama in one thread and a very productive album review in another. Today, the drama generates more interest, more responses, spends more time towards the top of the new posts page - it basically outcompetes the productive thread for attention. Today, drama is more culturally relevant.

So I think the MB environment today rewards the wrong things. The environment is basically made up by regular members, moderators and the technicalities of the site. Moderators do have the power to make drama less rewarding, but it is a difficult thing to do and very unpopular. It is seen as better to promote the sort of behaviour we do want, but how much do you have to promote it in order for it to outcompete all the drama here? What happens when you stop promoting good behaviour for a while? The technicalities of this site do not help promote productivity so it has to be a constant social effort, which is hard. The best strategy here, I think, would be to strike down on drama (ban those who generate and promote it) and reward whatever behaviour it is you want.

Controlling the environment so that it fosters the things we want would be a lot easier if we had control of the site itself which is part why I've once again brought up the suggestion of setting up a new forum for our community.

sopsych · 08-09-2013, 07:18 PM

"Banter" in this thread - the same way music threads often get derailed.

If people want catchy phrases, then from Duck Tales, "Work smarter, not harder." To echo Pedestrian, I am not personally going to work hard creating threads when they likely would be sabotaged by horseplay and/or personal attacks. If you want to pressure someone to be the change agent, pressure tore or someone else with leadership potential.

Burning Down · 08-09-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

"Banter" in this thread - the same way music threads often get derailed.

If people want catchy phrases, then from Duck Tales, "Work smarter, not harder." To echo Pedestrian, I am not personally going to work hard creating threads when they likely would be sabotaged by horseplay and/or personal attacks. If you want to pressure someone to be the change agent, pressure tore or someone else with leadership potential.

Why would I want to pressure one single person to change a whole forum? That's unfair to them and if it doesn't work it's all on them and them alone. I'm sure Tore is also a very busy guy in real life who doesn't need to be bothered with turning an entire forum around on his own. Why are you so obsessed with him?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-09-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

"Banter" in this thread - the same way music threads often get derailed.

If people want catchy phrases, then from Duck Tales, "Work smarter, not harder." To echo Pedestrian, I am not personally going to work hard creating threads when they likely would be sabotaged by horseplay and/or personal attacks. If you want to pressure someone to be the change agent, pressure tore or someone else with leadership potential.

You still don't get it do you.
There are no leaders, the owner of the site has been here once in 5 years.
All the best things about this site are what the members have made of it.

Tore tried to get things done, other moderators have tried to get things done. every time they are met by a brick wall. Most of the time we don't even get an answer to our requests. That's the reality of the situation so it's down to the members of the site to make this place work. So either be a part of the problem like you are now and just put everything & everybody down and spit at their attempts to do something constructive or do something about it and be a part of the solution.

sopsych · 08-10-2013, 12:55 PM

The usual defensiveness and near-defeatism. I doubt Yac refuses to make any technical changes, and technical changes are secondary for the issues that are bothering members. Many of us want more substance and less fighting. It sometimes feels like members vs. moderators, and no site can thrive that way. Friendly, visionary, can-do - I don't see those characteristics applying to any current mods, and I mean that matter-of-factly, not as an insult (I'm not "friendly" myself). Do any non-friends of the moderators disagree with my assessment? We need some moderators with those traits. If tore is more talk than action, then point me to someone with the right traits who is willing to be a moderator, my proposal to "be a part of the solution." This site can improve, if people are properly empowered.

GuitarBizarre · 08-10-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

The usual defensiveness and near-defeatism. I doubt Yac refuses to make any technical changes, and technical changes are secondary for the issues that are bothering members. Many of us want more substance and less fighting. It sometimes feels like members vs. moderators, and no site can thrive that way. Friendly, visionary, can-do - I don't see those characteristics applying to any current mods, and I mean that matter-of-factly, not as an insult (I'm not "friendly" myself). Do any non-friends of the moderators disagree with my assessment? We need some moderators with those traits. If tore is more talk than action, then point me to someone with the right traits who is willing to be a moderator, my proposal to "be a part of the solution." This site can improve, if people are properly empowered.

The mods, past and present, and Tore, the front-runner for taking us to a new site, have all told you that the ownership has no contact with us. The ownership that decides what happens here in a technical sense. This exact issue is why Tore stepped down as a mod, after hitting the point of frustration with trying to get any of these things done.

If you're not going to believe (literally) every moderator the forum has ever had, as to why we can't have new technical features implemented, I think you're better off leaving the discussion. I really don't see what you get out of musicbanter if its truly as rotten to the core as you claim. The rest of us like it but admit it has problems, and are trying to fix that. You're doom and glooming everything, and thats if you're not going full conspiracy theorist on us about how petty and high and mighty the mods are that they'd consider sabotaging the technical improvement of the forum despite YEARS of requests from members, mods and ex-mods to make those changes.

Go elsewhere. You will be happier, and I doubt that the forum will miss you.

08-09-2013, 04:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	Yeah but who loses their job in the end? US is right: the manager always carries the can, and he's always the one the fans blame. I mean, Suarez may be playing **e but what will fans say? Rodgers can't manage for *. Always the same. It's like Wolves: how many pretty decent managers have they had and their fans still can't accept that it's the players that are crap. Same with Blackburn. Sorry, non-footy followers: we now return you to your usual thread. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018*

08-09-2013, 03:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	First off, I agree with the first post. Second, I've mentioned it before, but forum culture - any culture - evolves in response to the environment it finds itself in. If cliquyness or how you'd spell it is rewarded, then the community gets more cliquey people. If productivity is rewarded, you get more productive people. By rewarded, I basically mean how much response it generates - how much attention it gets. Let's say you have some drama in one thread and a very productive album review in another. Today, the drama generates more interest, more responses, spends more time towards the top of the new posts page - it basically outcompetes the productive thread for attention. Today, drama is more culturally relevant. So I think the MB environment today rewards the wrong things. The environment is basically made up by regular members, moderators and the technicalities of the site. Moderators do have the power to make drama less rewarding, but it is a difficult thing to do and very unpopular. It is seen as better to promote the sort of behaviour we do want, but how much do you have to promote it in order for it to outcompete all the drama here? What happens when you stop promoting good behaviour for a while? The technicalities of this site do not help promote productivity so it has to be a constant social effort, which is hard. The best strategy here, I think, would be to strike down on drama (ban those who generate and promote it) and reward whatever behaviour it is you want. Controlling the environment so that it fosters the things we want would be a lot easier if we had control of the site itself which is part why I've once again brought up the suggestion of setting up a new forum for our community. __________________ Something Completely Different

08-09-2013, 07:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	"Banter" in this thread - the same way music threads often get derailed. If people want catchy phrases, then from Duck Tales, "Work smarter, not harder." To echo Pedestrian, I am not personally going to work hard creating threads when they likely would be sabotaged by horseplay and/or personal attacks. If you want to pressure someone to be the change agent, pressure tore or someone else with leadership potential. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

08-10-2013, 12:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	The usual defensiveness and near-defeatism. I doubt Yac refuses to make any technical changes, and technical changes are secondary for the issues that are bothering members. Many of us want more substance and less fighting. It sometimes feels like members vs. moderators, and no site can thrive that way. Friendly, visionary, can-do - I don't see those characteristics applying to any current mods, and I mean that matter-of-factly, not as an insult (I'm not "friendly" myself). Do any non-friends of the moderators disagree with my assessment? We need some moderators with those traits. If tore is more talk than action, then point me to someone with the right traits who is willing to be a moderator, my proposal to "be a part of the solution." This site can improve, if people are properly empowered. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.