We've got a major problem...

sopsych · 08-16-2013, 09:53 PM

I think some drama happens because the music discussion isn't exciting enough, with there literally not enough good threads to divert time and attention from fight-filled threads. (I certainly don't excel at rising above drama and am not the ideal person to be arguing Duga's case.) I also think that VEGANGELICA made a good list of suggestions (and I appreciate the music compliment). My additions would be discouragement of sarcastic and rude replies and outright intolerance of that as done with pictures. I genuinely believe in training - maybe I'm trainable myself, baaah - and I think things would improve gradually.

That said, there are two major questions:
Are moderators willing to change their own behavior as pertains to drama? (If not, they should just admit it and complain less about having to handle the reactions or, yeah, stop dealing with it altogether.)
Do many people believe there is too much drama on this site? Someone should do a poll - but it darn well won't be this whipping boy.

Right now there's an impasse - avoiding the issue won't help, and it probably can't be won by fighting.

Key · 08-16-2013, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

I think some drama happens because the music discussion isn't exciting enough, with there literally not enough good threads to divert time and attention from fight-filled threads. (I certainly don't excel at rising above drama and am not the ideal person to be arguing Duga's case.) I also think that VEGANGELICA made a good list of suggestions (and I appreciate the music compliment). My additions would be discouragement of sarcastic and rude replies and outright intolerance of that as done with pictures. I genuinely believe in training - maybe I'm trainable myself, baaah - and I think things would improve gradually.

That said, there are two major questions:
Are moderators willing to change their own behavior as pertains to drama? (If not, they should just admit it and complain less about having to handle the reactions or, yeah, stop dealing with it altogether.)
Do many people believe there is too much drama on this site? Someone should do a poll - but it darn well won't be this whipping boy.

Right now there's an impasse - avoiding the issue won't help, and it probably can't be won by fighting.

Dude. Stop.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 02:24 AM

A lot of the MB drama is a result of anger on the forums. I wonder, why are people so quick to anger here? Is it because we've been here too long and got too comfortable and now feel a sense of entitlement to get angry whenever we want? Or is it because it is an effective weapon in the social competitions around here?

Something many may not consider much is that anger is a way to control a social situation. When people get angry with me, it is usually because they take offense at something I write as part of a discussion. We're discussing with rational arguments, but then it suddenly turns hostile with ensuing name calling etc. What happens then is the rules of the game changes. Instead of trying to win the discussion using reason, it is now about ridiculing eachother. Or it can be about sabotaging the entire discussion. Maybe the one taking offense wasn't able to win a discussion with rational arguments so they decide, consciously or unconsciously, to take the discussion to a different level or sabotage it altogether with some "righteous anger". Perhaps what's important is suddenly not the point being argued, but how the arguments make others feel.

So I think a lot of the forum anger are attempts at controlling the discussions.

The Sopsych situation here is a result of the same. Some members here don't like Sopsych who is a newcomer here with provocative opinions and so they start to act out. The goal of many of those angry posts will be to derail the thread, cause a ruckus, and hopefully blame everything on Sopsych. When a moderator comes in and bans Sopsych or otherwise take some action against him, then that goal is achieved.

This goes on a lot around here. Do you mods realize how you are being used/played?

djchameleon · 08-17-2013, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I agree, Sopsych's posts are generally on topic. He hasn't broken any rules that I've seen. What derails the thread are people's reactions towards him.

Look up the rules on baiting. Sopsych's posts being on topic isn't the issue. The issue is not that he has a negative opinion that others don't agree with. It's the fact that the way he is interacting/communicating with people and not even paying attention the points they are making when they have made them numerous times in various different ways. It is almost like talking to a child and re-telling them in different ways why they can't have said toy. I'm just using that as an example. I'm not calling Sopsych a child just that his behavior exhibits it at times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

The Sopsych situation here is a result of the same. Some members here don't like Sopsych who is a newcomer here with provocative opinions and so they start to act out. The goal of many of those angry posts will be to derail the thread, cause a ruckus, and hopefully blame everything on Sopsych. When a moderator comes in and bans Sopsych or otherwise take some action against him, then that goal is achieved.

It's strange how much you defend Sopsych and I definitely feel like it's because of how much he praises you. It's something that you are doing subconciously. I know you aren't the vain type and you probably don't notice you are doing it but the main issue with Sopsych who is NOT a newcomer. He's been around since 2011 with this same rhetoric. He has worn down people's patience for him. A large majority of the time he only shows up when issues like this thread is going on to criticize the mods and talk about how they aren't doing their job up to his standards. He also states which mods that he doesn't like and feels like they should be a mod in general. I really don't understand how you guys can't tell who Sopsych really is based off of that last part but I won't go into wild speculation here. Sure, he has made some music posts because he has 600 something odd posts but look at his posting history and the posts that he has made in different threads. Do some research and you will find all the answers that you need.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2013, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

A lot of the MB drama is a resu
The Sopsych situation here is a result of the same. Some members here don't like Sopsych who is a newcomer here with provocative opinions and so they start to act out. The goal of many of those angry posts will be to derail the thread, cause a ruckus, and hopefully blame everything on Sopsych. When a moderator comes in and bans Sopsych or otherwise take some action against him, then that goal is achieved.

He's not a new member. He's been here for two and a half years. It looks like you've only noticed him now that he's spent a whole thread praising you to the heavens, but believe me he's been antagonizing people and derailing threads for quite a long time. People are tired of it, that's why you see the responses that you see. I mean don't you think it's a little odd that even someone like Fred, who gets along with everyone, has chimed in and told him to knock it off?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

This goes on a lot around here. Do you mods realize how you are being used/played?

Do you realize how you are? Just because he blows smoke up your ass doesn't mean he's worth defending.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-17-2013, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

The Sopsych situation here is a result of the same. Some members here don't like Sopsych who is a newcomer here with provocative opinions and so they start to act out. The goal of many of those angry posts will be to derail the thread, cause a ruckus, and hopefully blame everything on Sopsych. When a moderator comes in and bans Sopsych or otherwise take some action against him, then that goal is achieved.

This goes on a lot around here. Do you mods realize how you are being used/played?

We're not talking about trolls through, we're talking about people like Trollheart or Unknown Soldier and others like them who are really making an effort to post some good stuff and who have never been an issue in regards to their conduct in all the years that they have been members of the forum. And they are getting frustrated over a guy who continually dismisses their efforts yet openly says he has no intention of contributing to the forum himself.

You are welcome to your opinion but I feel in this case you are totally wrong. When members who have never been any trouble to moderate and who are always respectful to other members start getting annoyed about someone that's a clear sign you need to do something about it.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 05:05 AM

Jans, even if you forget about Sopsych or step back in time a little, I think my post is just as valid. People use drama and anger to control discussions here and sometimes, getting mods involved is a part of that tactic. Members sometimes want to escalate things to the point where mods have to intervene.

Rather than just disregard my argument because you think I have smoke blown up my ass, do you really think this does not happen?

edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

We're not talking about trolls through, we're talking about people like Trollheart or Unknown Soldier and others like them who are really making an effort to post some good stuff and who have never been an issue in regards to their conduct in all the years that they have been members of the forum. And they are getting frustrated over a guy who continually dismisses their efforts yet openly says he has no intention of contributing to the forum himself.

You are welcome to your opinion but I feel in this case you are totally wrong. When members who have never been any trouble to moderate and who are always respectful to other members start getting annoyed about someone that's a clear sign you need to do something about it.

It is okay to get annoyed of course. I just think that trolling (ex. as it is against the rules) is not okay, even when it's a productive, long time member doing it against someone unpopular. Sometimes, it is important that the same rules apply to everyone.

In your post now, it seems your attitude is excusing towards the behaviour of members who have been here long and are generally productive. I have also been here long, but I am willing to admit that I may need a reminder on how I should act around here now and then and I accept that telling me is part of the responsiblity that comes with the mod job.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2013, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Jans, even if you forget about Sopsych or step back in time a little, I think my post is just as valid. People use drama and anger to control discussions here and sometimes, getting mods involved is a part of that tactic. Members sometimes want to escalate things to the point where mods have to intervene.

Rather than just disregard my argument because you think I have smoke blown up my ass, do you really think this does not happen?

Yes, I agree that people do indeed to that. In fact that's very much the MO of the person we are discussing. Notice how, despite my attempt to remove the derail, he still succeeded in making the conversation focus on him.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Yes, I agree that people do indeed to that. In fact that's very much the MO of the person we are discussing. Notice how, despite my attempt to remove the derail, he still succeeded in making the conversation focus on him.

We have some site rules. They basically lay down the ground rules for the interactions that go on here.

From what I can tell, he operates within the rules, but the people who get upset with him have often been breaking them. Rules were broken in order to escalate the situation. As enforcers of the rules, what should you do?

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with Sopsych. No really, I don't. But people doing so should still be expected to stick to the rules.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2013, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

We have some site rules. They basically lay down the ground rules for the interactions that go on here.

From what I can tell, he operates within the rules, but the people who get upset with him have often been breaking them. Rules were broken in order to escalate the situation. As enforcers of the rules, what should you do?

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with Sopsych. No really, I don't. But people doing so should still be expected to stick to the rules.

Yes, we have rules, including a rule against trolling, as you well know. Should people be allowed to break that rule as long as they praise you personally or do think it should be enforced?

08-16-2013, 09:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	I think some drama happens because the music discussion isn't exciting enough, with there literally not enough good threads to divert time and attention from fight-filled threads. (I certainly don't excel at rising above drama and am not the ideal person to be arguing Duga's case.) I also think that VEGANGELICA made a good list of suggestions (and I appreciate the music compliment). My additions would be discouragement of sarcastic and rude replies and outright intolerance of that as done with pictures. I genuinely believe in training - maybe I'm trainable myself, baaah - and I think things would improve gradually. That said, there are two major questions: Are moderators willing to change their own behavior as pertains to drama? (If not, they should just admit it and complain less about having to handle the reactions or, yeah, stop dealing with it altogether.) Do many people believe there is too much drama on this site? Someone should do a poll - but it darn well won't be this whipping boy. Right now there's an impasse - avoiding the issue won't help, and it probably can't be won by fighting. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

08-17-2013, 02:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	A lot of the MB drama is a result of anger on the forums. I wonder, why are people so quick to anger here? Is it because we've been here too long and got too comfortable and now feel a sense of entitlement to get angry whenever we want? Or is it because it is an effective weapon in the social competitions around here? Something many may not consider much is that anger is a way to control a social situation. When people get angry with me, it is usually because they take offense at something I write as part of a discussion. We're discussing with rational arguments, but then it suddenly turns hostile with ensuing name calling etc. What happens then is the rules of the game changes. Instead of trying to win the discussion using reason, it is now about ridiculing eachother. Or it can be about sabotaging the entire discussion. Maybe the one taking offense wasn't able to win a discussion with rational arguments so they decide, consciously or unconsciously, to take the discussion to a different level or sabotage it altogether with some "righteous anger". Perhaps what's important is suddenly not the point being argued, but how the arguments make others feel. So I think a lot of the forum anger are attempts at controlling the discussions. The Sopsych situation here is a result of the same. Some members here don't like Sopsych who is a newcomer here with provocative opinions and so they start to act out. The goal of many of those angry posts will be to derail the thread, cause a ruckus, and hopefully blame everything on Sopsych. When a moderator comes in and bans Sopsych or otherwise take some action against him, then that goal is achieved. This goes on a lot around here. Do you mods realize how you are being used/played? __________________ Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 08-17-2013 at 02:35 AM.