Frownland

I believe that while Trout Mask Replica has done more for avant-garde music, it's hard to deny that The Velvet Underground and Nico expanded the avant-garde community. Most avant-gardists that I know have been drawn into the genre through Frank Zappa, free jazz, and/or The Velvet Underground and Nico (along with their other records, of course).

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Forward To Death

Trout Mask Replica and VU & Nico are totally seperate imo. They're both experimental, but like, Trout Mask is like nonsense, so more avant garde. VU & Nico has beautiful lyrics and is less chaotic. Overall VU & Nico is better, but imo TMR epitomizes the genre, and is artistic in its own way.

I went with TMR because of how influential it is for the genre, whereas VU & Nico was more influential on alternative genres than experimental.

Tough decision though.

SATCHMO

Both are pretty landmark albums and both are, to me, fairly overrated. Going further, both are hallmarked by what I consider to be some of the most annoying vocals ever recorded. With respect to & Nico though, the entire album isn't replete with her musings, so I take the good with the bad.

I've never been able to really listen to Beefheart or TMR, but I respect it quite a bit for it's creative genius. On the other hand I love VU, but just happen to hate the sound of Nico's voice. I think VU have put out better albums. I'd say both White Light, White Heat and Loaded are better than & Nico, but I tend to be of the minority in believing that. Even though I'm not a fan of the album or the artist, I'm going to say that Trout Mask Replica is a better album as a whole.

TockTockTock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forward To Death Trout Mask Replica and VU & Nico are totally seperate imo. They're both experimental, but like, Trout Mask is like nonsense, so more avant garde. VU & Nico has beautiful lyrics and is less chaotic. Overall VU & Nico is better, but imo TMR epitomizes the genre, and is artistic in its own way. I went with TMR because of how influential it is for the genre, whereas VU & Nico was more influential on alternative genres than experimental. Tough decision though.

How is Trout Mask Replica "like nonsense?"

Forward To Death

It's very ambiguous, and it takes thought to make sense of the lyrics, like most avant garde.

SATCHMO

I mean the entire album sounds like an earnest attempt at being artfully random, so nonsense isn't too much of a stretch when describing it.

TockTockTock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forward To Death It's very ambiguous, and it takes thought to make sense of the lyrics, like most avant garde.

Glad to hear this. Most of the people whom I have met simply dismiss the lyrics as not making any sense... When in reality, you just need to put forth a bit of time and effort into interpreting/understanding them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO I mean the entire album sounds like an earnest attempt at being artfully random, so nonsense isn't too much of a stretch when describing it.

Well, yea. Van Vliet said that the concept behind the album was to make music that was unpredictable and that caused the listener to have to focus on more than one thing at a time. For me, with each listen of the album, I learn something completely new because there is just so much going on within the music. Now, I wouldn't use the word "nonsense," but I understand what you mean.

blastingas10

I agree, Nicos voice is pretty unbearable.

TMR is the better avant-garde album, but that doesn't make it the better album overall. VU & Nico is overall the better album.

TockTockTock

I don't understand the dislike of Nico's voice. Personally, I love it.

blastingas10

Theres one instance when I like her voice, in the song "these days".