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Old 03-07-2006, 12:29 AM   #21 (permalink)
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oh no my dear noob, if we weren't arguing about genre's this forum we wouldn't have half as many posts.

A word to the wise: stay out of it and you will enjoy your stay here


I still like Old School Country
I regret nothing!!!!
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Ah, maybe I should've read the other replies first.

Not to jump into the arguement, but I've always seen a dialect as a regional variant of an existing language. Americans have a slightly dissimilar vocabulary to the other English-speaking countries, but the backbone of it is still English and so 'American' is a dialect of English and not (as some Americans suggest) an entire language on it's own.

An accent is merely the regional pronounciation of specific words. The language itself is not transmuted in any way, regardless of which accent it is being spoken in.
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
However, you did come out sounding like an elitist a-hole.

(Note: I never called you one, I was just observing that you came off like one - in my opinion - to whoever it was that said they liked Old School country)

You were very condescending to that person - calling their idea of music damaged - basing this on 2 lines of non-formal writing. I hate when people think they are the sole possessors of some great tome of musical knowledge. I hate elitists.
First of all, it was Murder Junkie who probably can take it. Secondly, he was decrying the authenticity of someone as a country singer depending on geograhpic unbringing. That might be one of the more prejudicial things you could possibly think. Something someone has no control over should not be the basis for their ability to do something. if this makes me elitist *******, then yes, I am one.

Secondly, im sure you write much more than an English/Communications major. We won't refute this any longer, I'll take our qualifications to PM because I think there irrelevent.

The reason I brought up your lack of musical reasoning (and you're doing it again) is because I made sound arguments you have yet to refute. What you're essentially doing is saying "I have nothing to say about that" and you ignore it and say comments like "No, jimmy rodgers made country."

In my opinion, you're an elitist ******* for thinking that, because it was born in the south, your implication is the same as Junkies. I think you're elitist for your "let's clear this up" attitude. I think you're elitist for saying "country is a joke stained by pop music"

My original point was as valid then as it is now, potentially more so now that you've joined in the chorus with Junkie.

I live in Boston, so clearly I don't have the potential to be as good a country artist as you, born in georgia?

I want to go on a tirade here about how being from the north makes me better at doing innumerate things. I want to do this to prove my point and make you see how insane it looks when the shoe is on the other foot. I'll express forbarence here because lets keep it about Country Music.

Two Final Notes:
Nice work boozy, this is the most amount of posts in the country forum in forever.
Regardless of what it may look like I've said here, Im still looking at country as a musical style, born mostly outside of the US and focusing on slide instruments, sustained notes, and twang.
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Nice work boozy, this is the most amount of posts in the country forum in forever
Thanks!
I feel so accomplished

There was certainly some good discussion here.
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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its no where close to over.
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Oh, dear.

Big. I was just pointing out a common mistake in the dialect/accent usage. When I was told the difference, I did not think that the person who told me was elitist. I also wasn't referring to just you when I made that remark, you seem to think it was a personal attack on you, when really I put it out there for everyone who was making the mistake. If I make a mistake like that, I would want someone to tell me so I did not continue making it.

I never questioned whether or not I wrote more than you. I do however write characters to be performed by people correctly, meaning I write in dialects and accents. Not only do I write in them, I also perform them. You do not wish to discuss qualifications on the subject anymore is because I have completely trumped your argument. You were wrong. It's fine. Nobody thinks less of you.

This is the SECOND TIME I'VE SAID THIS, so pay close attention. I did not REFUTE your arguments of the musical theory of country music because I thought you were spot on. That means I agreed with you. You are now searching for an argument where there is argument to be had. Like you are trying to save face.

I didn't ignore anything, why would I bring up something that you've already said and I agree with? That's trite and redundant. Jimmy Rodgers and the Carter family founded country music as a genre. I wasn't writing that for your approval, I was writing it as a fact. In my first post, I even agreed with you outright saying that country had roots in Celtic, blues, etc etc etc. I don't know why you think I am arguing with you about that. You clearly just didn't read carefully enough. Go back and look. You are pissed off because I said you looked like an elitist 4sshole. And you did, in my opinion. Before this subsequent argument, I did not think you were one, and was surprised that you would say something so blatantly ignorant. Which is why I pointed it out.

Why am I elitist for having the opinion that modern country is being stained by the new pop sound? Can you give me a reason why that is elitist? Just give me a good reason, and I'll re-evaluate the way I write it so it doesn't sound elitist. Because it isn't.


And just so you don't bring it up again, I will also reply to your last line...

Quote:
Im still looking at country as a musical style, born mostly outside of the US and focusing on slide instruments, sustained notes, and twang.
Hey, good point! I agree.

See how pointless that was me writing it out? It's a waste of forum space, and trite. If I never argued the point to begin with, I never disagreed with it.

Learn from your mistakes. Stop arguing when there is nothing left to argue about. We've agreed on the music theory, roots of country, and the fact that Rodgers and the Carters are the founders of the genre of country music. What else is there to argue about? I've settled the accent/dialect debate. I've never said I was better than you in ANYWAY, SHAPE, or FORM... stop assuming. I've actually gone as far to dissuade you from thinking that in my last post. The only thing in which I expressed superiority over you is the knowledge of the terms dialect and accent. That doesn't make you less of a person, it just means that I happen to have more knowledge in that field. NOT because I am from the South, but merely because I have been doing it for 14 years.

Got it, chief?

EDIT: I see where you got the, "I'm from Boston thing now" - Murder Junkie mentioned credibility of a NYC artist. I do not agree with that statement, and never have. MJ and I were only in agreeance in the fact that we liked Old School country, nothing more. This seems to be where the large part of the misunderstanding came from. So, knowing that now - we both should recognize that and take it into consideration
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Oh, dear.

You do not wish to discuss qualifications on the subject anymore is because I have completely trumped your argument

This is the SECOND TIME I'VE SAID THIS, so pay close attention.
I'm starting to think less of your crowe. You come blazing out of no where, guns drawn ready to take names about me being elitist, in an argument you didn't even understand correctly, and now you come here with the most arrogant speech in the entire dialouge...

No, I don't agree that we agree, as far as this argument is concerned. I never hated old school country, in fact I like it. The Highwaymen are what country should be, and I also agree with you that modern country is (in my opinion and apparently yours) subpar to country from roughly 1970 and back.

Here's where I think we disagree:

Me and Junkie were arguing about a singers authenticity (essentially the "street cred" of country music) and (as far as Im seeing it) you confused that with me hating old school country.

Now I'll be the first to admit, I don't know where the Jeff tweedy and Son Volt come from. I know John McCrea comes from California, I'm pretty sure jenny lewis comes from there as well (California) but even if the first two are from the south, or whats considered the south, the last two are decidedly not, and they can write some amazing country songs. Langhone Slim writes the country blues, he's from PA, a state thats above the mason-dixon line.

What my point? These guys are just as "country" as everyone else. That was my original point in all of this.

Now I don't know what your original issue was, im well aware of your most recent ones (because you were nice enough to bold them) but the point is. A yankee can write a country song just as well as a good ol' boy and this is what im saying: A country accent does not make you a country artist.

(P.S. Hobo jesus once said in public forum that I didn't want to discuss something in a forum because I looked stupid. When I finish you off in PM, I want you to just come here and apologize, and we'll be even)
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The Murder Junkie can take a punch.

I just stated what I preferred to listen to.
I didn't find Big3's comments condescending.
I am simply musically retarded, I accepted this long ago
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
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To set the record straight. I was never aware of MJ's questioning of a non-southern writer's credibility. So that when Big3 and I were arguing - we were arguing completely different points. I did, however, mistakingly observe big3 acting like an elitist. I probably would have called MJ's idea of country music damaged as well.

It is still a country dialect. Not accent. If you wan't me to list and cite a bunch of resources for you to look at regarding this matter I will. Or you could just go to www.google.com and look up Southern Dialect, and you will find inummerable educational pages written about it. If you look up Southern Accent, you will find that it is only used on forums and miseducated people. Simple as that. If need be, I will cite Ivy League Professors essays on the subject. I have quite a few.

My original issue was - that I perceived you calling someone else's idea of music damaged because they preferred Old School Country. Admittedly again, I missed the point of your post because I read both of them at the same time, both of the posts being close to each other and fitting on my screen. I completely missed the "credibility" - for that, and the subsequent thought of you acting elitist. I do apologize. (although I have pointed out that I have never thought you elitist, just came off like one, and I reiterate that here)

I agree that any person, from anywhere can write a country song as well as anyone else if they possess the skills, which are not limited to a region or country. I have never disagreed with that point. Do not lump me in with the credibility statement of MJs.

I would also like an apology from you here, questioning my intelligence in the accents and dialects argument. You were wrong and yet still, you slandered me in the same - by telling me to read a book, blah blah. When, in fact, I am quite more educated on the topic than you. Not bragging. Not boasting. We have both exchanged credentials, and I feel it's blatantly obvious -that I am well versed in the areas and especially so in the fundamental definitions of the words. It is a Southern Dialect. Accent is incorrect. Even if credentials weren't a matter at hand. A simple dictionary.com search has proven you wrong, without question or gray area involved.

A country dialect, does not make you a country artist.

The Highwaymen was the first thing my now missing father played for me when I was brought home from the hospital. After that... Zeppelin.

So I'll be waiting for that apology, and make up sex.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
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No way it doesn't at all because if you live in a country place it doesn't automatically make you a singer.
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