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Old 07-02-2009, 05:27 PM   #121 (permalink)
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I'm an atheist all the way.

I was baptized catholic and went to catholic high school and elementary. Either than that my family wasn't particularly devout.My mom was a christmas and easter christian, and we'd all have to go church when my granny came to visit.

My dad was pretty unreligious, having been subjected to a hardline catholic education and later joining a cult in his youth.

When I was a kid I took god as seriously as I would santa claus and the easter bunny as we didn't really go to church.

There are several reasons I don't believe. To me the idea of god seems all too human. In pretty much every religion he's a vengeful,spiteful prick just like a human being. I think of it as a fabrication for grown men and women who are no longer under the authority of their parents. Just like you can keep your sibling in line by saying "I'm telling mom or dad", grown adults can keep other adults in line by saying what they're doing is blasphemous, or "it's against gods will".

There's also the inconsistency in what people attribute to god. Winning a grammy award is god's blessing. A hurricane is god's punishment and the subsequent humanitarian aid is god's work.(would you be grateful if I burned down your house, then held a fundraiser for your family?-you'd probably call me insane.).

God is just a trump card that people use in wildly random scenarios: god's punishment, god's work, god's mercy, etc.

I realize someone might try pull the watch argument on me. The real question is: who created god in that particular circumstance? Is there no mark of intelligent design on a being that can create a complex system of living things.

I also acknowledge god can be used as a rallying tool for good causes(the civil rights movement for one). Just as many times though the construction of God has been used to justify evil.(the crusades, genocide of native americans,gulf war II, corporal punishment, and one of the huge roadblocks to peace between the palestinians and the israeli's)

I know Cardboard Adolescent has argued that religion and god is a tool to bond communities together and make people more giving. On the other hand think of how many times religion and god has been used to inflate certain ego's and line certain people's pockets, and caused more murder and destruction than it's prevented.

That's why I think God is baloney.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:21 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Cool post, thanks for sharing and for checking the OP and following the thread format.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:55 PM   #123 (permalink)
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I never really make detailed posts in this forum but i'm going to treat you because i'm drunk.


I'm basically agnostic. Faith in religion is something that i really wish i had. Yes there are fundamentalists who in history have caused a lot of terrible things but people overlook the fact that most religious people are generally the happiest, loveliest people that you could ever meet and i wish i could have that same amount of enthusiasm for life they have because they believe they have genuine answers. As long as no preaching is involved, which is rare for me apart from the occasional person on the street, i have no problem at all and sort of envy them. As far as atheists go it's the same, some of them are nice and respect others but some have the horrible "i'm right and you're wrong haha" approach which is incredibly hypocritical. People like Richard Dawkins don't help this.

I think there's something there. If the universe is just a random evolving stew there must have been some sort of chef. Whether it's a traditional god, a mix of spirits or guys with elephant heads i can't possibly say. I can't determine between religion or science 'till i see it though, and it ain't going to be in some evolution theories or a piece of toast. I guess i'm looking for a sign but how the hell am i going to possibly know when i see it? No one can.

I do have to say i really like the idea of reincarnation. Heaven is a bit far fetched (i'm sure if God existed he'd be too much of an awkward bastard to let you off that easy) and i assume roughly everytime an organism is born another dies, i can see how life as a whole is a big circle.

I do try to abide by the 10 commandments (more through common sense than anything) and karma as well so religion isn't lost on me, i think as long as idiot fundamentalists aren't near it it's a great way to strengthen society. As a member of that society though i wouldn't be believing in it whole-heartedly.

As Moz said though, "why pamper life's complexities?"
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:59 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Extraordinarily put. Especially for a lush like yourself.

I tend to agree, I am more cynical of a lot of peoples faith, but I too am genuinely envious of those who truly believe.

I am an atheist in the sense that I believe all human constructed Gods are fictional. I might fall more neatly into the agnostic category but it's too non-committal to express the conviction of my beliefs.

And while I endorse your perspective that the vast majority of people with religion are good people, I haven't found that ratio to be exclusive to those with any one faith or no faith at all.
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:15 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Extraordinarily put. Especially for a lush like yourself.

I tend to agree, I am more cynical of a lot of peoples faith, but I too am genuinely envious of those who truly believe.

I am an atheist in the sense that I believe all human constructed Gods are fictional. I might fall more neatly into the agnostic category but it's too non-committal to express the conviction of my beliefs.

And while I endorse your perspective that the vast majority of people with religion are good people, I haven't found that ratio to be exclusive to those with any one faith or no faith at all.
A lush? Do explain

I would like to fall one or side or the other because being agnostic is sort of lazy (as well as frustrating). I don't want to say all human explanations are fictional because most of is it based off of ancient scripts and no-one can say whether that's a game of chinese whispers or not.

I can't say whether that ratio is true or not since i'm a typical white middle class person who only has a few friends of hindu/muslim/etc faiths, but they know they have their good thing and i have mine.

It seems i don't have a lot of answers for a lot of things!
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:18 PM   #126 (permalink)
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None of us have answers for much, sharing ideas at last gives up something to do until we find out.

A Lush is simply a drunkard an over indulgent consumer of alcoholic beverages.
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i prefer foreplay. the orgasm is overrated.
If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

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Old 07-02-2009, 09:22 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
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A Lush is simply a drunkard an over indulgent consumer of alcoholic beverages.
Hehe fair play then!
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:25 PM   #128 (permalink)
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i think there are answers out there, but that most people aren't actually looking for them (if you are, I will repeat the immortal words of ADELE and say go to the botans on LSD) and furthermore, that christianity is a deliberate obfuscation of both the questions and answers with the intention of concentrating knowledge and power in an upper stratum, namely the priests, but that over time they first lost the knowledge and then the power. the basic paradox that keeps people comfortably trapped in christianity is that the christian God is both ineffable and unknowable, and immanently knowable as love. priests teach people they cannot know or understand God, but that they can feel his presence and be ethically guided by it. this essentially amounts to: don't trust reason, trust your feelings, at which point all they have to do is use emotionally charged rhetoric to instill the feelings they want you to have so they can manipulate you to do what they want you to do. this is not necessarily bad as long as you have 'priests' whose goal is to bring peace and happiness to everyone willing to work cooperatively. the problem with christianity is that since it is so ambiguous and self-contradictory, it can be used as a veil for less-than-noble intentions. for this reason i think it's preferable to turn to clear and transparent philosophical religious systems, such as plato's, spinoza's, or hegel's. their notions of god are still abstract and elusive, but it's very hard to hide unethical intentions behind their ideas.

reading over the thread i was pretty amused to see that it reflected by sudden shift in perspective from "i have no beliefs" to "we are all god." basically, if you haven't experienced God, then any belief you 'have' is merely a hypothesis, and to fully understand it you have to go out of your way to fully understand all the alternatives. if you have, you don't really need me to tell you anything, you just need to keep working on perfecting yourself as an individual. noone can say 'i am uncertain, therefore you have no right to be certain.' at the same time, however, it is just as ignorant to say 'i am certain, therefore you have no right to be uncertain.' neither certainty nor uncertainty are inherently bad. what is bad is false certainty, which is uncertainty filled in with a belief that has no justifications other than its ability to fill in this uncertainty. false certainty is the only mode of thought that can become truly destructive.
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:12 PM   #129 (permalink)
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There is a God, there are good philosophical arguements that shows why God does exist, but it comes down this: one agrees with the conclusion because one beleives there is a God, or while one is trying to deny there is a God, one consequentially feels compelled to deny the philosophical arguement as well.

A person admitting there is a God is just square one, that person has to learn to love God, other people, and him/her-self.

And it isn't easy to believe either, that person has to learn to forgive and move on, because once people find out you believe in God it is like open season, misunderstanding arises, insults flailed them, and they even have to listen to attacks on God.

Thats another thing, God created the whole universe and every good thing in it and all people do is sit around and complain, say ridiculous things about God, and try to make God into what He's not, unloving and/or nonexisting.
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:57 PM   #130 (permalink)
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There are things I see and cannot.
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