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Old 12-29-2011, 12:37 PM   #1051 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
And yet you're vehemently defending a bigoted society.

You're not simply explaining the nature of society, you're trying to establish their right to behave in a discriminatory fashion. If this is not your intent, then perhaps you should reconsider some of the methods by which you explain yourself.
Simply presenting the other side of the coin, Devil's Advocate if you will. If you'd notice I also presented the first judicial documentation against any discriminatory actions of an employer.

Yet, if it makes you feel better to have someone to blame and have a hissy-fit with then by all means take it out on me.

It 's also a matter of taking responsibility for your actions and to stop placing the blame on everyone else . . . you make your own bed, sleep in it.
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:40 PM   #1052 (permalink)
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Then it's definitely the way you're phrasing yourself, because while I acknowledged the first two bits of your post as reasonable, I still found the last sentence very offensive.

It does sound as though you believe quality of life should be sacrificed for fair treatment and employability.
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:56 PM   #1053 (permalink)
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Then it's definitely the way you're phrasing yourself, because while I acknowledged the first two bits of your post as reasonable, I still found the last sentence very offensive.

It does sound as though you believe quality of life should be sacrificed for fair treatment and employability.
What's wrong with taking responsibility for your own actions and not placing the blame on another? I don't think that sounds mean to me?
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:07 PM   #1054 (permalink)
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What's wrong with taking responsibility for your own actions and not placing the blame on another? I don't think that sounds mean to me?
This concept is relative. It applies in some circumstances, and not in others. A reasonable person would not say that gay people should be discriminated against because they chose to be gay. Could you argue that a gay person in a construction working environment is likely to make other employees uncomfortable? Yes. Could you argue that their choice of job may lead to abuse from the other workers? Yes.

Does sweeping gay people under the rug progress society? Is being gay a decision a gay person has made and should live with?

The only difference in these examples is that transgender people are less common, less understood, and more taboo. Hiding them out of sight and allowing society to ignore them is not going to build understanding or tolerance. We've come a long way in accepting gay people and acknowledging their rights. We will come a long way with transgendered people as well, but not if we pretend they don't exist.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:38 PM   #1055 (permalink)
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Simply presenting the other side of the coin, Devil's Advocate if you will. If you'd notice I also presented the first judicial documentation against any discriminatory actions of an employer.
If this is the case, you have made your point and we have all heard it. We agree that they have rights too, but their right to discriminate is less important that the "quality of life" of the employee.
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Yet, if it makes you feel better to have someone to blame and have a hissy-fit with then by all means take it out on me.
This is a pathetic line of reason. We aren't throwing a "hissy-fit". If you think disagreeing with a line of reasoning for a position you claim not even to hold, I doubt that the claim you don't hold the opinion is dubious. If you don't believe any of what you've added to this discussion, I don't understand why you take so much time defending it.
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It 's also a matter of taking responsibility for your actions and to stop placing the blame on everyone else . . . you make your own bed, sleep in it.
Right, I've had enough here. This has sank to the level of teenagers arguing which is their favourite Three Day's Grace song. I've had enough. You talk at great length to defend a position you have just claimed you don't even support.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:41 PM   #1056 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
This concept is relative. It applies in some circumstances, and not in others. A reasonable person would not say that gay people should be discriminated against because they chose to be gay. Could you argue that a gay person in a construction working environment is likely to make other employees uncomfortable? Yes. Could you argue that their choice of job may lead to abuse from the other workers? Yes.

Does sweeping gay people under the rug progress society? Is being gay a decision a gay person has made and should live with?

The only difference in these examples is that transgender people are less common, less understood, and more taboo. Hiding them out of sight and allowing society to ignore them is not going to build understanding or tolerance. We've come a long way in accepting gay people and acknowledging their rights. We will come a long way with transgendered people as well, but not if we pretend they don't exist.
I see your point . . . not being a choice I would tend to agree with you.

Being in the music biz for most of my life I have met every variation of homo-sapien you can think of, I've never had a problem with anyone and usually they never have a problem in the music biz, it's a very friendly atmosphere with emphasis on artistry and entertainment. A good career choice for alternative lifestyles.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:43 PM   #1057 (permalink)
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If this is the case, you have made your point and we have all heard it. We agree that they have rights too, but their right to discriminate is less important that the "quality of life" of the employee.

This is a pathetic line of reason. We aren't throwing a "hissy-fit". If you think disagreeing with a line of reasoning for a position you claim not even to hold, I doubt that the claim you don't hold the opinion is dubious. If you don't believe any of what you've added to this discussion, I don't understand why you take so much time defending it.

Right, I've had enough here. This has sank to the level of teenagers arguing which is their favourite Three Day's Grace song. I've had enough. You talk at great length to defend a position you have just claimed you don't even support.
Confusing . . . isn't it?
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #1058 (permalink)
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I see your point . . . not being a choice I would tend to agree with you.

Being in the music biz for most of my life I have met every variation of homo-sapien you can think of, I've never had a problem with anyone and usually they never have a problem in the music biz, it's a very friendly atmosphere with emphasis on artistry and entertainment. A good career choice for alternative lifestyles.
For alternative lifestyles, excellent. I mean, just look at the types of people this forum has brought together, and that's just as a hobby, not even as a career! It's a shame that the arts aren't a "more productive" career path to pursue (in the sense that it's very difficult to earn a living as a writer/musician/artist).
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:13 PM   #1059 (permalink)
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For alternative lifestyles, excellent. I mean, just look at the types of people this forum has brought together, and that's just as a hobby, not even as a career! It's a shame that the arts aren't a "more productive" career path to pursue (in the sense that it's very difficult to earn a living as a writer/musician/artist).
there are millions of jobs in this business, I've managed to do very well.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:19 PM   #1060 (permalink)
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Ideally, ANY career should be a good choice for "alternative lifestyles", but the only way to get there is to make a few people uncomfortable along the way
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