The problems with homosexuality

Mykonos · 12-24-2011, 04:53 AM

We are supposed to have a wide range of Acts in place that stop people like Above from being discriminated against when looking for jobs, but of course denying someone a job is something that yoi can easily find a range of bull**** excuses for, so I'm not shocked that some bigoted employers manage to shoot her down before she is even given a chance.

~~Rubato~~ · 12-24-2011, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

In reply to the italicized; the discrepancy I was alluding to was wherein you (1) called for people to mind their own business ("I love it when people feel the need to get on their soapbox and rant about how other people live their lives."), but previously seemingly (2) called for laws making it illegal to act upon ones own moral standards ("I'm transgendered, and in several states I can get fired for being so, and I wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it. ").

It seemed as though you were juxtaposing a Libertarian position, which I labeled (1), against a statist position (2).

Understand?

In regards to the underlined, that's an ad hominem attack.

I fail to see how it's any business of the employer, they're buying labor not people.

Above · 12-24-2011, 05:33 AM

I fail to see how stopping employers from firing me for being a transsexual is the opposite to freedom. Sure, maybe you understand freedom as "the freedom to take away other peoples' freedom", which is a messed up view in the first place. I love how you equate me wanting a job to me supporting a totalitarian system. Grow up.

Also, that may have been a personal attack on you in my last post, but it still stands true!

ThePhanastasio · 12-24-2011, 05:50 AM

From the Libertarian viewpoint, it is contrary to freedom in that governmental control and regulation of how free market enterprises are carried out infringes on their rights as individuals.

By forcing businesses to hire people who are gay, transgender, etc., they are being forced by the government to accept a viewpoint which they may or may not hold. In a lot of ways, it's kind of like forcing a punk rock venue to book pop acts, just because that's a more popular genre of music.

I'm not saying it's right at all - Hell, I'm gay - but the idea is that businesses should be allowed to conduct their business in the way they feel right. Limited government control and all of that.

I don't agree with this, but at the same time I'm not going to go out and try to gain employment with an overtly religious organization or anything of the sort, because they don't hold my beliefs, nor do I theirs. It's a double-edged sword.

Even if they're forced by law to be an equal opportunity employer, hiring me isn't go to change their mind about the gay community, and it's ultimately just going to lead to a tense situation. You can't force ignorant people to change their mind, much like they can't force me or anyone else to reconsider our sexual orientation. It's just an ugly situation, and I'm not a huge fan of overt provocation.

Above · 12-24-2011, 05:54 AM

Institutional discriminatory views shouldn't be protected anyway.

Salami · 12-24-2011, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Above

Institutional discriminatory views shouldn't be protected anyway.

Especially in public sector where the government is responsible for employment. If they discriminate against the people, they don't truly represent it.

ThePhanastasio · 12-24-2011, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Above

Institutional discriminatory views shouldn't be protected anyway.

No, they really shouldn't.

At the same time, these people may or may not come around on their own based on their own personal life experiences. The government telling them what to think essentially isn't going to be the thing that makes them come around. If anything, that's just going to vilify the government in their eyes. It seems to a lot of people as though their personal freedoms are being trampled on by being told what to think and what's acceptable.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly, though. The group of people who are the most ignorant may be the most vocal about their opinions, but they also constitute the vast minority of people I've encountered. The government intends to protect people with non-discriminatory employment laws, but you're always going to have people feeling victimized no matter what. That's just how people are. Everyone's different.

Above · 12-24-2011, 06:05 AM

Transphobia is a very real, institutionalized issue. Most people don't even know the meaning of the word transgender, so when they see me turn up to an interview, they'll just assume that I'm one of those people who get off on dressing up as a woman or some other misconception. It's one of the worst minorities to be a part of. Not trying for sympathy or "My life is harder than yours" here, just a fact.

Salami · 12-24-2011, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Above

Transphobia is a very real, institutionalized issue. Most people don't even know the meaning of the word transgender, so when they see me turn up to an interview, they'll just assume that I'm one of those people who get off on dressing up as a woman or some other misconception. It's one of the worst minorities to be a part of. Not trying for sympathy or "My life is harder than yours" here, just a fact.

Do you feel that they have the right to know? If you want to keep that information from them, is that forbidden? If so I think that's a very dubious piece of discriminatory legislation.
What they don't know can't hurt them, and it makes no difference to how well you will do in that job.

Above · 12-24-2011, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Salami

Do you feel that they have the right to know? If you want to keep that information from them, is that forbidden? If so I think that's a very dubious piece of discriminatory legislation.
What they don't know can't hurt them, and it makes no difference to how well you will do in that job.

Yeah, but until I fully transition, it's gonna be fairly obvious. I'm young, though, so hormones will make a huge difference with me.

12-24-2011, 04:53 AM	#971 (permalink)
Mykonos AWhatup Ganache? Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 381	We are supposed to have a wide range of Acts in place that stop people like Above from being discriminated against when looking for jobs, but of course denying someone a job is something that yoi can easily find a range of bull**** excuses for, so I'm not shocked that some bigoted employers manage to shoot her down before she is even given a chance. __________________ 'Not that Becktionary, the Rhyming Becktionary!'- Bender Bending Rodriguez

12-24-2011, 05:33 AM	#973 (permalink)
Above Oh my golly! Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: England Posts: 339	I fail to see how stopping employers from firing me for being a transsexual is the opposite to freedom. Sure, maybe you understand freedom as "the freedom to take away other peoples' freedom", which is a messed up view in the first place. I love how you equate me wanting a job to me supporting a totalitarian system. Grow up. Also, that may have been a personal attack on you in my last post, but it still stands true! __________________ Be pure, Be vigilant, Behave

12-24-2011, 05:50 AM	#974 (permalink)
ThePhanastasio Killed Laura Palmer Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ashland, KY Posts: 1,679	From the Libertarian viewpoint, it is contrary to freedom in that governmental control and regulation of how free market enterprises are carried out infringes on their rights as individuals. By forcing businesses to hire people who are gay, transgender, etc., they are being forced by the government to accept a viewpoint which they may or may not hold. In a lot of ways, it's kind of like forcing a punk rock venue to book pop acts, just because that's a more popular genre of music. I'm not saying it's right at all - Hell, I'm gay - but the idea is that businesses should be allowed to conduct their business in the way they feel right. Limited government control and all of that. I don't agree with this, but at the same time I'm not going to go out and try to gain employment with an overtly religious organization or anything of the sort, because they don't hold my beliefs, nor do I theirs. It's a double-edged sword. Even if they're forced by law to be an equal opportunity employer, hiring me isn't go to change their mind about the gay community, and it's ultimately just going to lead to a tense situation. You can't force ignorant people to change their mind, much like they can't force me or anyone else to reconsider our sexual orientation. It's just an ugly situation, and I'm not a huge fan of overt provocation. __________________ Phish: Studio Discography Reviewed 100 Albums I Heartily Recommend My last.fm It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken Perhaps they're better left unsung

12-24-2011, 05:54 AM	#975 (permalink)
Above Oh my golly! Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: England Posts: 339	Institutional discriminatory views shouldn't be protected anyway. __________________ Be pure, Be vigilant, Behave

12-24-2011, 06:05 AM	#978 (permalink)
Above Oh my golly! Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: England Posts: 339	Transphobia is a very real, institutionalized issue. Most people don't even know the meaning of the word transgender, so when they see me turn up to an interview, they'll just assume that I'm one of those people who get off on dressing up as a woman or some other misconception. It's one of the worst minorities to be a part of. Not trying for sympathy or "My life is harder than yours" here, just a fact. __________________ Be pure, Be vigilant, Behave