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Old 03-01-2012, 04:03 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Single people and non-married couples also help subsidize marriages of the society to which they belong.
True, and they also have the right to marry.
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They can already do this.
But would you object? I'm asking whether your objection to gay marriage is for financial reasons or if there are moral objections too.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:14 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Single people and non-married couples also help subsidize marriages of the society to which they belong.
Those single people and non-married couples have chosen not to marry, but should they choose to marry the option is there. Giving gays the right to marry, is just giving them the same rights and choices in life that hetrosexuals have.

Like Salami, I'm actually disappointed that you've not actually put forward a better argument here, basically you've danced around the main issues here and have just sought to put up a few obstacles, by putting up side-tracking links and trying to form an argument against gay marriage purely based on economic factors. You've not once really tackled the issues of love, relationships, morality or what marriage actually means, believe it or not, it should not be about the economic burden that it puts on society, but about a contract between two human beings.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:53 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Those single people and non-married couples have chosen not to marry, but should they choose to marry the option is there. Giving gays the right to marry, is just giving them the same rights and choices in life that hetrosexuals have.
Actually, they have the same exact rights as do heterosexuals. Hence why the laws are about marriage of people of the same sex; sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. Two straight men can not marry one another; two gay men may not marry one another; yet, a gay man could marry a gay woman, etc, etc.

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You've not once really tackled the issues of love, relationships, morality or what marriage actually means, believe it or not, it should not be about the economic burden that it puts on society, but about a contract between two human beings.
Why don't I argue about love, morality, or the meaning of marriage of relationships? Because love is not something conferred on a relationship by a state; nor does state recognition make a marriage moral; nor does it give a marriage meaning.

However, the state currently does confer economic benefits on married couples. Hence, I argue economics.
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Last edited by hip hop bunny hop; 03-01-2012 at 04:53 PM. Reason: grammar/tags
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:16 PM   #224 (permalink)
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Yes I am kidding you, I stated that Minnesota had homophobes that lived in shacks, you and a few other people, that is all.

I really don't know why you're bringing the African example into this debate, the USA like Western Europe are democracies, where individual rights and freedom of choice are given facts of life. The hostilities and hatreds of the developing world, should have no place within these democracies.
Stop with bull**** accusations. Let me make this clear: I AM NOT A HOMOPHOBE. Get that in your stupid head of yours. Just because I oppose gay marriage does not mean I AM A HOMOPHOBE. Same with Hip Hop Bunny Hop. Stop it, it makes your statement look nothing.

I mentioned Africa because homophobia there is higher. I was born in Nebraska but I am a Congolese descedent and I am repsectful to gay people. Just today I spoke to a gay person and I had a great conversation with him. I am a African man and I respect gay people. Most Africans would love to see gays suffer because they think that gays are not humans. In fact I am willing to hang with a homosexual. My parents dislike homos a lot. They made it clear that I am not allowed to bring homosexuals in my house.

Stop the bull****. I respect gay people.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:44 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Actually, they have the same exact rights as do heterosexuals. Hence why the laws are about marriage of people of the same sex; sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. Two straight men can not marry one another; two gay men may not marry one another; yet, a gay man could marry a gay woman, etc, etc.

Why don't I argue about love, morality, or the meaning of marriage of relationships? Because love is not something conferred on a relationship by a state; nor does state recognition make a marriage moral; nor does it give a marriage meaning.

However, the state currently does confer economic benefits on married couples. Hence, I argue economics.
You argue economics, as its the only angle that you've got here, so lets not go kidding people on that one anymore.

The state obviously has no control over love, neither does it make marriage moral, but what it does do, is sanction a contract between two people who decide to marry for love, companionship or a shared interest. Most people look for a stake in life, whether that be a home, financial security, personal happiness or the contract of marriage etc. Do you really think that a person should be denied any of these if no law-breaking has taken place?

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Stop with bull**** accusations. Let me make this clear: I AM NOT A HOMOPHOBE. Get that in your stupid head of yours. Just because I oppose gay marriage does not mean I AM A HOMOPHOBE. Same with Hip Hop Bunny Hop. Stop it, it makes your statement look nothing.

I mentioned Africa because homophobia there is higher. I was born in Nebraska but I am a Congolese descedent and I am repsectful to gay people. Just today I spoke to a gay person and I had a great conversation with him. I am a African man and I respect gay people. Most Africans would love to see gays suffer because they think that gays are not humans. In fact I am willing to hang with a homosexual. My parents dislike homos a lot. They made it clear that I am not allowed to bring homosexuals in my house.

Stop the bull****. I respect gay people.
What! Your parents don't allow gays in your shack!!!

Again you're blabbering on about not being a homophobe, about how respectful you are to them, how nice they are, how its cool that they can live together in perfect harmony, you even shocked me on an earlier thread, when you said it was cool that they could adopt children! All this makes your anti-gay marriage stance quite simply startling!

Lets be honest here FPK, you don't approve of gays their lifestyles and what they do and you don't honestly expect anybody on here to believe that you do. You made your biggest error on post 91, where you stated that gays should be allowed to parent children (whether you mean that through a surrogate mother, adoption or fostering etc is besides the point) How can you possibly give gays the right of being parents, but deny them the right of marriage! Below is where you dropped this clanger.

http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...tional-10.html

You've either overlooked that point or its just a case of a homphobe troll slipping up, I'd say it was the latter option.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:40 PM   #226 (permalink)
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I've really just come to the conclusion that it's in-just for the government to recognize marriages and hand out benefits based on it. Even recognizing any kind of civil union deeply compromises our equality by making the assumption to reward a certain life-style.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:15 PM   #227 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
What! Your parents don't allow gays in your shack!!!

Again you're blabbering on about not being a homophobe, about how respectful you are to them, how nice they are, how its cool that they can live together in perfect harmony, you even shocked me on an earlier thread, when you said it was cool that they could adopt children! All this makes your anti-gay marriage stance quite simply startling!

Lets be honest here FPK, you don't approve of gays their lifestyles and what they do and you don't honestly expect anybody on here to believe that you do. You made your biggest error on post 91, where you stated that gays should be allowed to parent children (whether you mean that through a surrogate mother, adoption or fostering etc is besides the point) How can you possibly give gays the right of being parents, but deny them the right of marriage! Below is where you dropped this clanger.

http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...tional-10.html

You've either overlooked that point or its just a case of a homphobe troll slipping up, I'd say it was the latter option.
What the hell matters. You are once again making dumb accusations as you always tend to do when someone does not see your way. All you want to do is make fun of me simply because I am not for gay marriage. I already stated that Gays should be able to adopt children and gays should be able to serve the army openly. That is common sense. Yes I don't agree with Gay Lifestyle but I respect gay people. I don't make up stuff when I SAY I ACTUALLY MEET GAY PEOPLE. I am very respectful towards them and I always talk them in a normal way. I am never scared seeing a homosexual. I will always talk to them if they want to talk to me. I am nice to them.

This notion that I hate homosexuals are lies. US, I know you hate people who don't see your view 100 percent but understand everyone has different opinions.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:47 PM   #228 (permalink)
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You cannot claim to "respect gay people" while simultaneously arguing that they do not deserve the same rights as straight people
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:22 AM   #229 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Actually, they have the same exact rights as do heterosexuals. Hence why the laws are about marriage of people of the same sex; sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. Two straight men can not marry one another; two gay men may not marry one another; yet, a gay man could marry a gay woman, etc, etc.
if this statement is in any way meant to be serious, then it is pathetic and condescending because it completely refuses to accept that the right to marry is equivalent to the right to marry a certain gender. If it's part of a serious argument, it is despicable.
Quote:

Why don't I argue about love, morality, or the meaning of marriage of relationships? Because love is not something conferred on a relationship by a state; nor does state recognition make a marriage moral; nor does it give a marriage meaning.

However, the state currently does confer economic benefits on married couples. Hence, I argue economics.
Ok then, if this is the case I'd like you to give some evidence that gay marriage will pose a significant financial drain on society, and take into account that they pay into society as much as anyone else.
I find it impossible to accept that you should deny them a right they have themselves been paying towards.
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Stop with bull**** accusations. Let me make this clear: I AM NOT A HOMOPHOBE. Get that in your stupid head of yours. Just because I oppose gay marriage does not mean I AM A HOMOPHOBE. Same with Hip Hop Bunny Hop.
if you like gay people, could you tell me why you wish to deny them a right they really want?
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:35 AM   #230 (permalink)
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What the hell matters. You are once again making dumb accusations as you always tend to do when someone does not see your way. All you want to do is make fun of me simply because I am not for gay marriage. I already stated that Gays should be able to adopt children and gays should be able to serve the army openly. That is common sense. Yes I don't agree with Gay Lifestyle but I respect gay people. I don't make up stuff when I SAY I ACTUALLY MEET GAY PEOPLE. I am very respectful towards them and I always talk them in a normal way. I am never scared seeing a homosexual. I will always talk to them if they want to talk to me. I am nice to them.
This paragraph that you've written above, serves as the perfect example of your inability to express yourself in a cohesive manner, its full of contradictions, oversights and you basically sound like a slobbering half-wit, but lets not get into chucking cheap insults here and get down to tackling the nitty griitty of the matter here, that you've been good enough to provide above.

How the hell can you approve of gay people parenting children and yet deny them the right of marriage! Has it not even ocurred to you, that the parenting of children by gays is going to be a far more contentious issue than that of gay marriage? One is the simple union between two people who have decided to undertake this union, the other is a responsibility by both parents for the raising and caring of children in a stable environment and a far more serious undertaking, you cannot allow one and yet deny the other. Children need a stable environment in which to grow up, parents don't have to be married to provide that stable environment, but the marriage union is still held sancrosanct by many families and the choice should always be there.

As for why you've typed "I am never scared of seeing a homosexual" above, is simply beyond me! What are you on about, do you actually know how silly you sound, I guess you do but you simply don't care.

Normally I would've stopped attempting to debate with you a long time ago, but if this thread is going to continue, I only think its fair that someone should counter your irrational idiosyncrasies on here and expose them for the nonsense that they are.

I have to say FPK, people on MB welcome a good debate and differing opinions make the forum tick, but your moronic trolling just makes you a laughing stock on here.

Last edited by Unknown Soldier; 03-02-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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