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elphenor 01-20-2017 04:19 PM

for peacefully protesting

****ing hell people hate it so much when people participate in politics unless they do it in the specific way they would do it

djchameleon 01-20-2017 04:22 PM

Also the most of the people critical of protesting would never get off of their ass for any cause so I don't even know why they bother commenting on it.

elphenor 01-20-2017 04:25 PM

It's almost as if they're trying to front an "above it all" cynicism so as to excuse themselves from having to participate intellectually or otherwise


I'm totally fine with "tea party of the left" btw I never looked down on the Tea Party I am impressed by it

Frownland 01-20-2017 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1797994)
Also the most of the people critical of protesting would never get off of their ass for any cause so I don't even know why they bother commenting on it.

That's a neat way to write off opposing opinions. Kudos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1797996)
It's almost as if they're trying to front an "above it all" cynicism so as to excuse themselves from having to participate intellectually or otherwise

Or maybe they genuinely feel that way.

Quote:

I'm totally fine with "tea party of the left" btw I never looked down on the Tea Party I am impressed by it
Adults acting like children didn't do it for me in any Adam Sandler movies, it's not gonna work for me in politics either.

grindy 01-20-2017 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1797998)
That's a nice way to write off opposing opinions. Kudos.

He is kinda right though. I know I wouldn't.
Although I did participate in a few anti-nazi protests in my leftist teenage years and it was pretty fun.

elphenor 01-20-2017 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1797998)
Adults acting like children didn't do it for me in any Adam Sandler movies, it's not gonna work for me in politics either.

Can you really argue with the results grassroots politics are messy but effective

I don't even have to say that I think the policies are all pretty much the worst feasible thing that could be done

The Batlord 01-20-2017 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1797992)
This comes later on in the process. Strategizing and coming up with a specific campaign around an issue. Base building then leading up to another action.

Yes this is kind of pointless but it's more about being symbolic and using the energy wrapped around people's fears to stand up and show power in numbers. The protests that are going on today and tomorrow. Also of course there are anarchists that just want to run around and break **** but there are other protesters out there as well.

Are you saying it's to build a movement for the future even though the current action has no immediate point? I'm not mocking that, as if it works, it works, and making sense every second of every day is not necessary if your tactics are effective in the long term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1797994)
Also the most of the people critical of protesting would never get off of their ass for any cause so I don't even know why they bother commenting on it.

And the people who engage in protests are probably those more likely to be disenfranchised in general, even if they didn't have a reason to be disenfranchised. Those people are more likely to affect change than I am, but that doesn't mean they are more logical than I am.

djchameleon 01-20-2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1798011)
Are you saying it's to build a movement for the future even though the current action has no immediate point? I'm not mocking that, as if it works, it works, and making sense every second of every day is not necessary if your tactics are effective in the long term.

Essentially yes, the current action kind of jumps the bullet and puts the horse in front of the cart. Actions are usually like the third step in the process when you have actual demands and things that you want to accomplish that came from months of planning.



Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1798011)
And the people who engage in protests are probably those more likely to be disenfranchised in general, even if they didn't have a reason to be disenfranchised. Those people are more likely to affect change than I am, but that doesn't mean they are more logical than I am.

I have mixed feelings about it to be honest. The people that engage in certain protests will be riled up and angry in the moment but over the next few days. They will just go back to their day to day lives and not move on with that energy to work towards solutions and that pisses me off so much. I can't work with those type of people. If you are going to be passionate and angry enough to protest and march. Follow it up and work with different groups to actually accomplish something concrete. It ends up just being an empty gesture at the end of the day.

The Batlord 01-20-2017 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1798021)
I have mixed feelings about it to be honest. The people that engage in certain protests will be riled up and angry in the moment but over the next few days. They will just go back to their day to day lives and not move on with that energy to work towards solutions and that pisses me off so much. I can't work with those type of people. If you are going to be passionate and angry enough to protest and march. Follow it up and work with different groups to actually accomplish something concrete. It ends up just being an empty gesture at the end of the day.

I feel you, but I'm not even talking about that. Think about political, violent revolutionaries like Mao's army in China during the war with Chiang Kai Shek, or any number of grassroots paramilitary revolutions throughout history. I'm sure there were plenty of poor farmers who were hungry and angry who joined those armies, but I imagine the very first people to decide they wanted to enact violent change were probably people who would have been likely to want to rail against any establishment of any kind that was in power, simply because that was the psychology of those revolutionaries.

To bring that back to your thing, the people who started whatever it is you're doing might be right, but would they have been content to just sit around and be regular members of society if what they're now protesting against wasn't there? Or would they have found some other reason to be angry? Those kinds of people are the most likely to enact change, partly because they might have a point, but also because those people are simply looking for a fight of any sort.

djchameleon 01-20-2017 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1798031)
To bring that back to your thing, the people who started whatever it is you're doing might be right, but would they have been content to just sit around and be regular members of society if what they're now protesting against wasn't there? Or would they have found some other reason to be angry? Those kinds of people are the most likely to enact change, partly because they might have a point, but also because those people are simply looking for a fight of any sort.

You pretty much answered some of your questions in your first paragraph.
When people feel they are pushed against the wall whether it be something tangible or their values. They are moved to act out in someway. It isn't always the most constructive way but they feel like their backs are against they wall and they will be angry enough to move to act out.

It usually falls back to their own personal self interest. If something is affecting the way that they conduct their daily life or they have some connection to it by how they were mistreated in the past then they will definitely move to action.


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