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#12471 (permalink) | |||||||
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NYC Man
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On the other hand, Grateful Dead have a bunch of multipart songs, "epics," relatively complex music, etc. So although your criteria overall don't define progressive rock very well, Grateful Dead fit your criteria. You haven't only listened to Workingman's Dead and American Beauty, have you? |
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#12472 (permalink) | ||
Primo Celebate Sexiness
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,662
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QUOTE=Terrapin_Station;1732573]But there are a lot of artists who didn't "add complexity," too, so you'd not be able to account for them.[/QUOTE] Maybe not. I was going by the same woerding other die-hard prog fans have said to me multiple times in the past, not just on MB but way before: prog is about complexity. That was the main argument against Pink Floyd's prog status. Quote:
QUOTE=Terrapin_Station;1732573]Post-rock is a prog subgenre, heavily influenced by krautrock among other things, which is also a prog subgenre.[/QUOTE] Subgenres don't necessarily have the same history as their fathers. Plus, I've never heard it describerd as a prog genre beofre (alrhough I can see it). QUOTE=Terrapin_Station;1732573]On the other hand, Grateful Dead have a bunch of multipart songs, "epics," relatively complex music, etc. So although your criteria overall don't define progressive rock very well, Grateful Dead fit your criteria. You haven't only listened to Workingman's Dead and American Beauty, have you?[/QUOTE] That's one theme. Prog wasn't decided on by one theme. Naming one thing they had in common does not denote an entire genre or even half of it. There were a lot of things about prog, but the commonly chosen one is "complexity." Epics generally tend to fall into complexity. There's a diofference between a prog epic and a rock epic. Obviously, the epic would have to be prog rock. You wouldn't call Jimmy's 26minute long violin solos prog, and I wouldn't call a regualr rock practice of simply lengthening a song prog.
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#12473 (permalink) |
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Well, you'd said "little to no 'avant-garde' experimentation."
Re "not really" in reference to RIO/avant-prog artists, are you saying that they do little to no avant-garde experimentation? Take this, for example: Or this: Wouldn't you call that avant garde experimentation? |
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#12476 (permalink) |
Primo Celebate Sexiness
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Again, I would call that a subgenre of prog that DID have experimental/avant-0garde influence. I diodn't say prog and all of its sub-genres. I'm talking rogular prog rock in general. But it is true avant-prog is the only prog genre I can think of at the moment with avant-garde influence (besdies zeuhl, which is avant-prog's child). Not the same kind of experimentation as prog. That's what I'm saying. Prog isn't as playful and free as experimental rock. Whereas experimental rock is extremely free and far more unconventional. Extremely unpredictable. Experimental rock isn't about "complexity." It's about total unconventionality while using typic rock instruments. Prog is different. You could say it's more evenly made, crafted like a song would be, Prog still puts itself in verse, carries very notable rock sounds. Even thoug hit still experiments a bit, it's still very much "rock." The avant-garde experimental scene was very different from that, very much so in rock. You wouldn't put Frank Zappa's Freak Out in the same genre as SEBTP by Genesis, would you?
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#12478 (permalink) | ||||||
carpe musicam
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Les Barricades Mystérieuses
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I am talking the spectrum of underground/mainstream. And it's all relative to where you stand on that line. I considered Traffic underground while another member here said he didn't like them cause they were too mainstream. OK it's relative how people perceive it. Vanity Fair are not obscure as a band like Apple, they are a mainstream band that have been relatively forgotten. Vanity Fair are obscured by time, not obscure at the time. Led Zeppelin might be the biggest band for Rock fans, but at the time they weren't exactly a cookie-cutter Top 40 radio band. Quote:
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I pretty much understand what Progressive Rock is. The term "progressive" was more adjective to describe approach to music goal than a genre, with the goal to push music in a new territory. If would think that Progressive Rock bands mixed Jazz, Classical, Folk, Blues, R&B, Traditional/World Music, to some extent you can find any combination of them in music before and after Prog. The Progressive Rock bands are not too different than previous bands before or after them. So the act of mixing other genre together in my opinion should be the sole hallmark of Prog since it done almost with every style of music. In my opinion it has to come done to time period, since what instruments that were available at the time really effect their sound. Location is important, are the band influencing each other (so there something in common). Melding genres and song structure is still an important factors though.
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![]() "it counts in our hearts" ?ºº? “I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” Jack Kerouac. “If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” Aristotle. "If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." John Lennon "I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." Keith Richards Last edited by Neapolitan; 08-19-2016 at 07:41 PM. |
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#12479 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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JGuy Grungeman, are you saying that there is a genre that you call "avant-garde experimentation" rather than avant-garde experimentation being a feature of some music not known by that name insofar as genres go?
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#12480 (permalink) |
Music Addict
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Neapolitan, you're doing the same thing as JGuy now--you're typing a bunch of stuff without actually answering questions I asked you.
Here's what I asked: What are you basing your knowledge of who is/was or isn't/wasn't popular in the US on, just out of curiosity? When people start doing that when they're disagreeing with me, I go minimal and focus on one small thing at a time, so that's what we'll do. |
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