WaspStar

1. On the internet, to avoid the tedium of preceeding every post with "imo" or "It's only my opinion," it's easier to just say "So-and-so sucks." Also, the terms "great" and "awful," while implying objectively, are usually understood to mean "I like this album" or "I don't like this album."

2. The people who do take it seriously ("I am right and you are wrong") tend to be the biggest jackasses on the board.

3. When people say "are you fucking serious?", again, I think it's really a way of saying, "Wow, our opinions are really different on this matter and I can't relate to you at all," rather than, "Gee, you're an idiot for liking/disliking this band."



Yep. What's the point of listening to music if it's merely an exercise to see what you should like?

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"This sure doesn't look like 'Crazy Ernie's Amazing Emporium of Total Bargain Madness!'"

Minstrel

Sure. Subjectively, lots of people think the taste of the two people you mention is poor. But that doesn't mean there's any objective Truth about it. It's just another popularity issue. In communities like this, there are biases towards some kinds of music and against others.

How much shit one gives another person for their taste really speaks to how confrontational one is, not to some de facto evidence of objective differences.

Pity, yes. I think the "you're fucking crazy if you believe X is better than Y" style doesn't do much to advance interesting discussion. However, in my opinion, music is highly bound up in personal identity for big music fans, so they feel a greater sense of outrage or threat when confronted by an opposing viewpoint on a music issue they feel passionate about. That tends to lead to confrontational discussion rather than tolerant discussion.

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"Blow your tuneless trumpet, the choice is yours / We don't want the glamour, the pomp and the drums / The Dublin messiah scattering crumbs"

jackhammer

We need to argue the merits of our favourite artists to vindicate our adoration of said artists. We all deep down want acceptance and so we post away on forums hoping that someone will agree or say that our choices are the balls. It's human nature to debate, to debase, to criticise or to accept and assimilate.

If we breakdown an atypical internet forum into it's components then it is full of arseholes peddling their wares (metaphorically speaking) but we all secretly want confrontation, acceptance or even acquiesence.

To say that all forums are full of egotistical idiots or opinionated people is entirely correct. There are massively varying degrees of this but the internet has given the bedroom bound self styled music fountain a voice and quite rightly so. Everybody really wants to be heard and giving opinions on music provides a connection.

I am certainly not saying that forums are not worthy. Far from it. I have heard so many more bands since joining MB that I would'nt have heard before and have gained a few friends and more respect of peoples tastes but at the end of the day my tastes are right and yours are wrong*. We all think that OUR OWN knowledge and musical tastes are still better than anyone elses no matter how we dress it up. This is self. The true test is whether we can be humble enough to let others intrude upon our own ridiculous charade of self importance. I would like to think that I can.

*I hope that people can see what I am trying to say here. It's not a statement to infuriate or written to be elitist. It's a view that we all probably have but (quite rightly) bury in our psyche's.

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WaspStar

Very good take on it, jackhammer.

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"This sure doesn't look like 'Crazy Ernie's Amazing Emporium of Total Bargain Madness!'"

Fyrenza

when you put it that way jackhammer

we all sound so

so

normal

even wayfarer

Janszoon

"These days"? You talk like that hasn't been the case all along.

Zaraki Kenpachi

Hmm, me thinks I poorly worded my thought.

I meant that I dont judge a band/song/album purely based upon who it is by, what genre its in, what time period it was made, what method was used to make it, the marketing that went into the albums success, or the conceited things an artist may say while he's on tv.

Whereas it seems that most people cant do those things.

50 cent talks about guns...his album must suck.
3 Days Grace only plays 3 chords...they must suck.
Johnny Cash was an opium head...he must suck.
Whitney Houston plays vocal gymnastics too much...she must suck.
She's a british midget trying to rap...she must suck.

I hear (and read) lots of people taking one little thing that often has very little to do with an artsists actual body of work and making sweeping judgements about their career and albums.

So in that regard yes I can objectively critique an album on a song by song basis of coursed based purely on my preferences but like I said my pallet isnt very restrictive.

I stand by my initial post, if you like a variety of music (not a variety of artists within one style) then you can objectively judge music because your bias is not as extreme or pronounced.

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My name means...No matter how many times you cut him, he will not fall.

Fruitonica

Your open listening style grants you an informed opinion, but it is still opinion.

Because once you judge something objectively there isn't room for conflicting viewpoints. Essentially, you're saying that anyone who disagrees with you must be wrong.

Fyrenza

i'm going to have to agree with you zaraki

even here in these forums
i know that i'm more likely to listen to a list of music posted by one member over another simply because my tastes coincide with the one
and i think of the lists as reviews of a sort

i think all of us do that

really
ask yourself
do you have the time to sit and listen to every new band/album/song?

most of us don't and we rely on networks of like-minded -- well -- critics, like our friends and acquaintances and internet buds

and for my part
i would rather read what zaraki has to say about an album
than what i might have to say about it




it seems to me that what he'd be doing is stating his informed observations and that wouldn't necessarily rule out debate/discussion

and when it comes to which opinion you trust more
it would be unwise not to opt for experience and diversity of taste

imho

Fruitonica

His observation may be highly informed, but that hardly makes it any more objective, which is what I'm arguing.

And yeah, I'm more likely to listen to someone who is open minded in his approach to music, but only because that mirrors my approach. Obviously you tend to give most credence to opinions from people who have similar tastes.