Bon Jovi: "Steve Jobs Killed Music"

MoonlitSunshine · 03-26-2011, 04:34 PM

If you're right about the 30c/69c thing, then I'm totally with you on that. However, is there any chance you could reference where you're getting those numbers from? Everywhere I look online (Here, here, here and here, for example, to take the first four links from google) all state that the artist gets about 10c.

I'm not saying digital downloads are a bad thing, hell, I think it's a great idea to be able to sell your music online. But seriously? 10%? That's bull****.

music_phantom13 · 03-26-2011, 05:12 PM

I'll try to find a source and update this post. But I know for a fact as I've talked with an independent on iTunes who told me they take a 30 cent flat cut from every download. If you are an independent artist with no label or promotion to pay off, you therefore get all of the remaining cost. Like I said, you will probably have to pay a digital distribution service, and I can't say how much that costs. I would guess you would make at minimum 30 cents.

UPDATE:

Here's a link to something about digital distribution services:

7 Ways To Sell Your Music on iTunes

Here's an article on appleinsider where apple states that they take between 60 and 70 cents per download:

Apple Insider

So, as you can see CD Baby charges $35 in processing and $20 for a UPC code, then takes a commission of 9% on every sale. So, assuming the artist was receiving 60 cents (which I think is almost always the case for independent artists with no label), they would be paying 5.4 cents per sale to CD Baby, leaving the artist with 54.6 cents. To cover the initial charge of $55, you would therefore have to get about 102 downloads of single songs or just over 10 album downloads (assuming $10/album) to cover the cost, at which point you would be making 54.6 cents for every download. In my opinion, that's a sweet deal, and ends with a huge chunk of the money in the artist's pocket. The real issue with iTunes is the fact that they make deals that give the labels large amounts of the profit instead of the artist, but it still leaves the artist with a oomparable chunk of cash in comparison to physical music, where the amount of cds they would have to sell is going to be much higher before they start making a profit, but will receive more after that point.

These chart is a good comparison for how the label makes a lot and the artist less, but iTunes can still be better than other options:

Revenue to the artist chart

Basically, the best way if you are really concerned to get money to the artists is to buy directly through them when possible or go to concerts and buy merchandise there. Just wanted to point this out, because I think that iTunes gets a LOT of unfair hate for the amount of money going to the artists, where in reality it isn't really unreasonable at all unless you're a relatively large band with tons of iTunes downloads.

Buzzov*en · 03-26-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

First of all, not all hair metal is shit. Second, Bon Jovi is a particularly bad example of AOR, not hair metal. If you are going to bother bashing an artist, get thine fucking genres straight.

All hair metal was ****. Sorry to hurt your feelings by giving my opinion on a ****ty genre.
Um he was glam metal which is aka hair metal. So thank you for trying to act like you know what you are talking about when it is evident you do not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

I feel I have to comment on this as well: So, after this ridiculously opinionated comment of yours in which you slash an entire, quite popular genre and refuse to admit that Bon Jovi might have written something half decent in his entire musical career (you don't think it might just not be your taste?), don't you think Bon Jovi's entitled to his opinion as well? You might not agree with it, but what he said is going to strike true with a lot of people out there.

I refuse to admit he has any good songs since he is garbage and since that quite popular genre was garbage as well. Just because something is popular does not make it good.

Quote:

Firstly, he said two different things, only slightly, but it's important. The first is that he didn't say Steve Jobs Killed music, he said that he felt Steve Jobs had killed the music business, which you can argue quite well. There's a fairly large different between the two, and you might consider music business as Bon Jovi considers it to be obsolete, but it doesn't make him any less right.

the music business has changed he did not kill it. He just helped make record companies pretty much obsolete

Quote:

He Then goes on to say why this saddens him, and yes, Oojay, he does mention the unknown aspect of an album, and I agree with him. If completely kills some of the aspects of getting a new album and listening to it for the first time if you have had a 90 second preview of all the tracks beforehand. I don't think it's feasibly possible to argue that it doesn't take away from the mystery.

Um they play the songs over the radio does that not take away from an albums mystery? they sold singles before itunes even existed.

Quote:

Buzz*ven - If you're going to make ridiculously opinionated statements, try allowing other people to have their own opinions as well.

Follow your own advice and shut up than.

Quote:

Oojay - The iTunes "buy the hut singles" approach kills albums, I've started seeing among my own friends, and I don't like it.

I guess you over look the fact that singles have been sold before itunes even existed. Go back on itunes and take a look how some songs are not available UNLESS you buy the full album.

UnionThug · 03-26-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Bon Jovi done a lot more harm to music than Steve Jobs did.....

Haha. Nicely put.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-26-2011, 06:19 PM

@Music Phantom: Thanks for the links, you're right, there is a lot of undue hatred out there, I should have dug a little deeper before making my mind up about it! It is a little annoying that digital download is often only slightly better than a ****ty record deal (given how horribly ripped off many artists are by that situation), but I guess we're never going to live in an ideal world where there aren't people skimming off the top, no matter what you do. And it doesn't really change my mind about Apple, I still think they massively overcharge for all their services :P

@Buzzov*en: ...I'm not even sure what to say to that. Basically, you don't like the genre which automatically means it's **** no matter what anyone else has to say? Nice argument. I'm perfectly fine with you not liking it, I couldn't care less what you think if that's your personal view of music, just don't try and tell me that something I quite enjoy listening to is garbage just because you think so.

Buzzov*en · 03-26-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

@Music Phantom: Thanks for the links, you're right, there is a lot of undue hatred out there, I should have dug a little deeper before making my mind up about it! It is a little annoying that digital download is often only slightly better than a ****ty record deal (given how horribly ripped off many artists are by that situation), but I guess we're never going to live in an ideal world where there aren't people skimming off the top, no matter what you do. And it doesn't really change my mind about Apple, I still think they massively overcharge for all their services :P

@Buzzov*en: ...I'm not even sure what to say to that. Basically, you don't like the genre which automatically means it's **** no matter what anyone else has to say? Nice argument. I'm perfectly fine with you not liking it, I couldn't care less what you think if that's your personal view of music, just don't try and tell me that something I quite enjoy listening to is garbage just because you think so.

Your comment to me was so contradicting it is funny. Basically I can have my opinion, but I can not express it to you since it talks badly about the genre you like. Wow.

music_phantom13 · 03-26-2011, 06:26 PM

Oh I'm with you there... I have an iPod and use iTunes, but the only time I actually buy music from them is when people give me gift certificates. I especially like how in that article they tried to say they were just getting by with no profit

And you're right, with a truly *good* independent label that cares about its artists, they can get a much better deal than iTunes.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-26-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzov*en

Your comment to me was so contradicting it is funny. Basically I can have my opinion, but I can not express it to you since it talks badly about the genre you like. Wow.

No, I said you're perfectly entitled to an opinion, but a statement like "Bon Jovi sucks, end of." requires more than just your word for it. Opinion and fact are two very different things, after all. if you're unwilling to come to terms with that fact, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.

Buzzov*en · 03-26-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

No, I said you're perfectly entitled to an opinion, but a statement like "Bon Jovi sucks, end of." requires more than just your word for it. Opinion and fact are two very different things, after all. if you're unwilling to come to terms with that fact, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.

He does suck. Well there is not point in speaking to someone like yourself who is just starting **** since someone was blunt about an artist they like.
Don't try to say otherwise because you compeltely overlooked my response to your album mystery comment.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-26-2011, 07:01 PM

woah woah woah, slow down there a second. If you look back over this thread, I've offered more points to back up what I've been saying than the vast majority of people here. You want me to address a point I missed because i was taken aback by how biased you were against anything I was likely to say in the first place (which was my point, as i have proven in this thread I'm more than happy to change my opinion if someone can give me valid evidence to prove I'm wrong, you on the other hand seem so completely set in your views that I'd have as much fun arguing with a brick wall)?

Fine: Album mystery. Exactly how many singles are usually released off an album? Three, Four at most? What's the average length of an album? About 12 songs? That's a quarter of the album at the very most that you might hear before you buy it. Songs that may well not end up being your favourites on the album; there's still the majority of the album left to discover, hell it could end up being nothing like what you thought it would be.

I believe Oojay said earlier on in this thread that iTunes gives you a 90 second preview of any song you're thinking of buying. If that doesn't "kill the mystery" I don't know what will. Have I offered enough "opinion" here? Do you want me to go into more detail?

03-26-2011, 04:34 PM	#61 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	If you're right about the 30c/69c thing, then I'm totally with you on that. However, is there any chance you could reference where you're getting those numbers from? Everywhere I look online (Here, here, here and here, for example, to take the first four links from google) all state that the artist gets about 10c. I'm not saying digital downloads are a bad thing, hell, I think it's a great idea to be able to sell your music online. But seriously? 10%? That's bull**. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?"** - Arthur Dent

03-26-2011, 05:12 PM	#62 (permalink)
music_phantom13 Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 942	I'll try to find a source and update this post. But I know for a fact as I've talked with an independent on iTunes who told me they take a 30 cent flat cut from every download. If you are an independent artist with no label or promotion to pay off, you therefore get all of the remaining cost. Like I said, you will probably have to pay a digital distribution service, and I can't say how much that costs. I would guess you would make at minimum 30 cents. UPDATE: Here's a link to something about digital distribution services: 7 Ways To Sell Your Music on iTunes Here's an article on appleinsider where apple states that they take between 60 and 70 cents per download: Apple Insider So, as you can see CD Baby charges $35 in processing and $20 for a UPC code, then takes a commission of 9% on every sale. So, assuming the artist was receiving 60 cents (which I think is almost always the case for independent artists with no label), they would be paying 5.4 cents per sale to CD Baby, leaving the artist with 54.6 cents. To cover the initial charge of $55, you would therefore have to get about 102 downloads of single songs or just over 10 album downloads (assuming $10/album) to cover the cost, at which point you would be making 54.6 cents for every download. In my opinion, that's a sweet deal, and ends with a huge chunk of the money in the artist's pocket. The real issue with iTunes is the fact that they make deals that give the labels large amounts of the profit instead of the artist, but it still leaves the artist with a oomparable chunk of cash in comparison to physical music, where the amount of cds they would have to sell is going to be much higher before they start making a profit, but will receive more after that point. These chart is a good comparison for how the label makes a lot and the artist less, but iTunes can still be better than other options: Revenue to the artist chart Basically, the best way if you are really concerned to get money to the artists is to buy directly through them when possible or go to concerts and buy merchandise there. Just wanted to point this out, because I think that iTunes gets a LOT of unfair hate for the amount of money going to the artists, where in reality it isn't really unreasonable at all unless you're a relatively large band with tons of iTunes downloads. Last edited by music_phantom13; 03-26-2011 at 05:41 PM.

03-26-2011, 06:19 PM	#65 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	@Music Phantom: Thanks for the links, you're right, there is a lot of undue hatred out there, I should have dug a little deeper before making my mind up about it! It is a little annoying that digital download is often only slightly better than a ***ty record deal (given how horribly ripped off many artists are by that situation), but I guess we're never going to live in an ideal world where there aren't people skimming off the top, no matter what you do. And it doesn't really change my mind about Apple, I still think they massively overcharge for all their services :P @Buzzoven: ...I'm not even sure what to say to that. Basically, you don't like the genre which automatically means it's ** no matter what anyone else has to say? Nice argument. I'm perfectly fine with you not liking it, I couldn't care less what you think if that's your personal view of music, just don't try and tell me that something I quite enjoy listening to is garbage just because you think so. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?"** - Arthur Dent

03-26-2011, 07:01 PM	#70 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	woah woah woah, slow down there a second. If you look back over this thread, I've offered more points to back up what I've been saying than the vast majority of people here. You want me to address a point I missed because i was taken aback by how biased you were against anything I was likely to say in the first place (which was my point, as i have proven in this thread I'm more than happy to change my opinion if someone can give me valid evidence to prove I'm wrong, you on the other hand seem so completely set in your views that I'd have as much fun arguing with a brick wall)? Fine: Album mystery. Exactly how many singles are usually released off an album? Three, Four at most? What's the average length of an album? About 12 songs? That's a quarter of the album at the very most that you might hear before you buy it. Songs that may well not end up being your favourites on the album; there's still the majority of the album left to discover, hell it could end up being nothing like what you thought it would be. I believe Oojay said earlier on in this thread that iTunes gives you a 90 second preview of any song you're thinking of buying. If that doesn't "kill the mystery" I don't know what will. Have I offered enough "opinion" here? Do you want me to go into more detail? __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

03-26-2011, 06:26 PM	#67 (permalink)
music_phantom13 Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 942	Oh I'm with you there... I have an iPod and use iTunes, but the only time I actually buy music from them is when people give me gift certificates. I especially like how in that article they tried to say they were just getting by with no profit And you're right, with a truly good independent label that cares about its artists, they can get a much better deal than iTunes.