R.E.M. - Opinions

**Janszoon** · 01-29-2023, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Just a ten-year bump to this thread of opinions about R.E.M.

I'm here because of a recent discussion in another thread. Thanks to Janzsoon, rubber soul, SGR, Synthgirl and elphenor (playing the role of devil's advocate), I'm listening to Chronic Town for the first time. On the first run through I particularly liked Stumble, where the drums actually seem to stumble over themselves.... now on the second listen, I'm definitely enjoying it much more, especially that jangly guitar that infects every track. Nice.

Here's a question for REM-o-philes: I just read these rather contradictory comments about Chronic Town:
on Youtube "...outstanding concept...brilliant lyrics..."
on Allmusic: "...incomprehensible mumbled vocals...I don't pay attention to the lyrics..."

So my question is: what percentage of Stipe's lyrics do you pay attention to?

Not much. I’m not much of a lyrics person in general. I listen to music for the music, if I want literature I read a book. All I ask is that lyrics not be so bad that they’re distracting. In REM’s case, I listen to them for general mood of the music, but Stipe’s lyrics are usually fairly decent.

Lisnaholic · 01-29-2023, 09:57 AM

Thanks, rs. Good to have a name to put to the jangly guitarist, who is contributing so much to the REM sound: the "wanna-be Byrds" guy of elphenor's description, I suppose.

Yes, I will definitely take your advice and move on to Murmur next because I am well pleased with this Chronic Town recommendation. I also notice that most people here seem to favour early REM. Perhaps REM follow the arc of many bands: bold, innovative sound at the start of their careers, then getting soft, self-indulgent or over-complicated furthur down the line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGR

Looking back through this thread, I saw ancient posts from a version of me in 11th grade, asking others for their input on what albums I should buy for $8. Man, time flies.

^ 11th grade!!

We should have been talking about you in that "Is it creepy...?" thread about young posters. I hope MB treated you appropriately when you first came here. Is that old post identified as SGR, or did you have a chrysalis under a different name, before breaking out into the butterfly that is SGR?

Lisnaholic · 01-29-2023, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Not much. I’m not much of a lyrics person in general. I listen to music for the music, if I want literature I read a book. All I ask is that lyrics not be so bad that they’re distracting. In REM’s case, I listen to them for general mood of the music, but Stipe’s lyrics are usually fairly decent.

at the bold!

Yep, I'm the same really, most often I'm happy to let lyrics wash past my small attention window and just picking up a phrase or two once in a while. That's partly because there's a good chance I'll find the lyrics annoying if I work out what the band is actually on about.

Plenty of exceptions to that rule too though; over the years I've searched out the lyrics to L Cohen, Beefheart, Syd Barratt and of course:-

**Janszoon** · 01-29-2023, 10:41 AM

I have to say, I’ve never understood why Dylan’s lyrics get so much praise. I’m not saying they’re bad necessarily, but I’ve never heard anything by him that I thought was very impressive. I’m with you Leonard Cohen though.

rubber soul · 01-29-2023, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Thanks, rs. Good to have a name to put to the jangly guitarist, who is contributing so much to the REM sound: the "wanna-be Byrds" guy of elphenor's description, I suppose.

Yes, I will definitely take your advice and move on to Murmur next because I am well pleased with this Chronic Town recommendation. I also notice that most people here seem to favour early REM. Perhaps REM follow the arc of many bands: bold, innovative sound at the start of their careers, then getting soft, self-indulgent or over-complicated furthur down the line.

Yes, you could say their work from 1987 on is all of the above. That was about the time they started to try to sound more commercial. They fought against that at IRS records but went full throttle after they signed with Warner Bros. And yet they still could make brilliant material with tracks like Losing My Religion and albums such as Automatic For the People and New Adventures in Hi- Fi. Even after Berry left and they became a trio, they could still put out some really great stuff. They split up finally before they could become another joke like U2.

But, yeah, their first three albums are definitely the highlight of REM's career (save AFTP of course).

SGR · 01-29-2023, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Thanks, rs. Good to have a name to put to the jangly guitarist, who is contributing so much to the REM sound: the "wanna-be Byrds" guy of elphenor's description, I suppose.

Yes, I will definitely take your advice and move on to Murmur next because I am well pleased with this Chronic Town recommendation. I also notice that most people here seem to favour early REM. Perhaps REM follow the arc of many bands: bold, innovative sound at the start of their careers, then getting soft, self-indulgent or over-complicated furthur down the line.

^ 11th grade!!

We should have been talking about you in that "Is it creepy...?" thread about young posters. I hope MB treated you appropriately when you first came here. Is that old post identified as SGR, or did you have a chrysalis under a different name, before breaking out into the butterfly that is SGR?

Yeah lol - you can find the posts on page 10 or 11 i think - and it is under SGR - back then I was SoundgardenRocks until getting the username changed what, a year ago or so? MB did always treat me good - I was humbled with how much the posters back then knew - how much different stuff they listened to. And I'd have users like BastardOfYoung and Unknown Soldier and even Urban that I'd occasionally DM for recommendations - to which they always were accomadating.

I actually prefer 90s REM to 80s REM, despite the fact that their strongest album(s) are probably from the '80s. Their sound is a lot more varied. And their first 2000s album, Reveal, is also a favorite of mine. A very dreamy and sunny record. It doesn't have the same energy as early REM though.

Lisnaholic · 01-29-2023, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I have to say, I’ve never understood why Dylan’s lyrics get so much praise. I’m not saying they’re bad necessarily, but I’ve never heard anything by him that I thought was very impressive. I’m with you Leonard Cohen though.

Yep, Cohen has some great lyrics - very carefully worked out of course. You've probably heard the story about how Bob and Leonard once compared notes about lyric writing: Leonard, sometimes two or three months: Bob, sometimes two or three hours.

Perhaps Dylan's reputation rests on not just what he wrote, but when: he gets bonus points for innovation at various stages of his songwriting life. Some highlights to me:-
Blowin' In The Wind: very effective use of questions and simple images to make us wonder about life, maturity, freedom etc.
Like A Rolling Stone: a jarring outburst of spite of a kind not really heard before afaik
Blood On The Tracks: an album-full of story songs, packed with drama, but with charming little details worked into the fabric of the songs too: "She was thinking about her father, whom she very rarely saw" and a line that Cohen might have liked, "I kissed goodbye to the howling beast on the borderline that separated you from me."

Well, that's just a couple of examples - as you might have seen, I have a whole book-full !

Queen Boo · 01-31-2023, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

lyrics are typically bad at being "literature"

because they are meant to be accompanied by music...it's almost like watching a movie with the sound off

if they knew you were going to watch it that way, it'd have been directed differently

there's definitely an art to good lyrics, although it may be an entirely different skill set from writing otherwise

I agree with you for once, I never got the point of judging lyrics entirely on their own without acknowledging the context of the music.

Most songs lyrics are going to be more repetitive and limited in structure compared to what you can do with a poem or a novel, so yeah Bob Dylan's lyrics on their own are not gonna hold up against *enter name of famous poet here because I don't fucking know anything about poetry* but that's missing the point, you're comparing two completely different mediums.

Synthgirl · 01-31-2023, 04:39 AM

Agreed. Lyrical poetry can be great and impactful, but if the cadence of the lyrics doesn't fit in with the music, the music as a whole suffers. And on the other side of the coin, some great songs can have largely meaningless lyrics but they still fit with the style or theme of the song.

Back to the subject of REM, I'm a bit sick of their hits (I could go without ever hearing Shiny Happy People ever again quite frankly) but their whole career has a lot of great songs. Life's Rich Pageant, Green and Murmur are probably my favorite three albums.

**Frownland** · 01-31-2023, 06:38 PM

I too like to confuse delivery with lyrical quality.

EDIT: REM sux

01-29-2023, 10:41 AM	#184 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	I have to say, I’ve never understood why Dylan’s lyrics get so much praise. I’m not saying they’re bad necessarily, but I’ve never heard anything by him that I thought was very impressive. I’m with you Leonard Cohen though. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

01-31-2023, 06:38 PM	#190 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I too like to confuse delivery with lyrical quality. EDIT: REM sux __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-31-2023, 04:39 AM	#189 (permalink)
Synthgirl Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Cheeseland USA Posts: 162	Agreed. Lyrical poetry can be great and impactful, but if the cadence of the lyrics doesn't fit in with the music, the music as a whole suffers. And on the other side of the coin, some great songs can have largely meaningless lyrics but they still fit with the style or theme of the song. Back to the subject of REM, I'm a bit sick of their hits (I could go without ever hearing Shiny Happy People ever again quite frankly) but their whole career has a lot of great songs. Life's Rich Pageant, Green and Murmur are probably my favorite three albums.