The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (country, American, quote, cheap)

[IamAlejo]

I would rather him not sign it at all then sign it and not stick to his word.

[strung out rulz]

i studied the kyoto treaty last year and it is not actually that effective, we need another treaty that would actually make a difference and not a treaty that makes a miniscule diference in over a 100 years time. I think the reason why some world leaders dont sign it is because it is not that effective, we need something else.

[franscar]

We need a car that runs on trash like in Back to the Future 2.

[ffmariners]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Hmmm...where to start, where to start. I'll start with North Korea. Bush has already labeled North Korea as a member of the "axis of evil" with Iraq and Iran. I truly believe that we WOULD be in North Korea now if 1. We weren't already in Iraq and 2.North Korea wasn't so close to China. China isn't to fond of us getting to close to them, especially since we know they hate their Communist Government. Example=Korean War. I truly think that all you people that say oil is a reason are just truly trying to find something that isn't there. No WMD have been found, yet weapons that Iraq was not supposed to have based on UN (not US) guidelines HAVE been found. Long Distance Missiles. I also believe Iraq was attacked because there was more of a fear that Hussein could have an easier effect of helping terrorist organizations in the Middle East. Being in the Middle East, I think that Bush was trying to send a message that Terrorism would not be something that happens without a response. Going into Iraq and Afghanistan was almost a joint effort. Both are located close, and that could have posssibly been another reason.

(african stuff removed)

Just... no.

"Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, a former US army commander in Korea, stated that the US army in Korea would be destroyed in less than three hours."

N. Korea actually happens to be a formidable enemy with a treaty with China. The treaty states that if North Korea is invaded, China will send as many troops as needed to defend N. Korea. If N. Korea attacks someone, then they will only send people to be on defense, not front lines.

A Nation is only sovereign over 19km from the coast line (except for the US we extend 370km)... yet the N. Koreans consistently enforce a 200km rule and turn away US spy planes. This is against international law, but they do not care and want sovereignty over their waters.

They have 600km of tunnels or more and have been building them with underground facilities since the vietnam war, precision bombing will not do anything. Our best bunker busters can go through 40m of rock, the highest underground tunnel is 80m under the groundlevel.

US Tanks are made for open field battle, like Iraq. Korea is a mountanious area, with deep rivers. The Koreans have tanks that can go into 6m deep water, travel rougher terrain, and are faster.

I could go on but N Koreans are not like Iraqi's. The Iraq's give up... the NKors fight till the end or kill themselves (as seen when a crew abandoned ship at a S. Korean shore). North Korea's militias consist of 1.6 million self-defense units, 100,000 people's guards, 3.9 million workers militia, 900,000 youth guard units. These militias are tasked to defend the homeland. The militias are fully armed and undergo military trainings regularly. As far as the enlisted military goes.. South Korea has 19 infantry divisions whereas North Korea has 80 divisions and brigades.


They are not a target Bush is stupid enough to attack...



all this information was pulled from http://www.globalsecurity.org/
so if you want to cross reference go ahead

[ffmariners]

Originally Posted by jibber

^ i agree, this debate is pretty one sided, which gets really damn boring very fast, we need someone else with different opinions. interactive and mobilize were both good at arguing their points while still making sense and not resorting to immature insults.

From what I have seen people with opposing viewpoints get their account disabled

[ffmariners]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

So...If your boss fired you, I bet you'd have some lovely things to say about them? Probably not. So I don't see how you can really go off things written in that book.

The one thing that gets me mad is when people talk about "Killing Innocent Iraqi Civilians." When the "innocent" civilians are the one's housing the people we are searching for, trying to attack, what is there to do? Same thing happened in Vietnam, when we refused to attack the Religious buildings in the area. What happened? The Vietnameese hid in the buildings, firing from those areas, knowing we wouldn't attack. I'm glad to see Bush making it clear that if you house these refugees, you are just as much as an enemy to the troops then the actual refugee. Bush had a great administration? No, all the Presidents have sucked. The last person to actually have some intelligence (book smarts) was Bush Senior. Clinton was an idiot, but most people are so blinded by their "Party" that they don't seem to care. Are you telling me Kerry, a guy who bitched and moan about a war he was in after signing up for the armed forces, is gonna be the next great president? If so, give me a break. O yeah, and I've said this before. If you aren't from USA, don't even respond to what I've said, cause you don't know what goes on here, so it's not needed. I've got more to say, but my fingers are cramping.

you are not from Iraq, do not talk about what goes on there

does not make sense? It shouldn't. tell me, what do you have access to that a foreigner does not? In fact, his view is more unbiased than yours, and should definately be input.

and calling Clinton is absurd, I'll just laugh about that though, no need writing an essay on it


edit: and oh, so should we say people that come home from Iraq and protest the war are EVIL? just because they witnessed the kiilling and sometimes massacring of innocent civilians and are traumatized, are they EVIL? seriously now..

[ffmariners]

Originally Posted by shadowsniper

Oh how lovely, an instigator. My fingers dont hurt so let me take up the lead. You can go off anything first of all. Everything is propaganda, but reading both sides gives you a more enlightened view of the situation. So never say you cant go off the book. Bush never publicly denied what the book speaks about anyways, so he isnt saying its not true.

Another thing, when a civilian shelters a "terrorist" its sometimes because the TERRORIST has a GUN to the guys face. Are you going to shoot the civilian who is a victim as well? Lets make it a killing frenzy, shall we? I do not recall people hidding in religious buildings in Vietnam, they sure arent Mosques or Cathedrals for sure. Are you talking about Monestaries? Even if they did, it wasnt a big factor and if they did, the US would be doing the same thing they are doing now in Iraq; going through them. Vietnamese deserve their victory... They faught stronger than any soldier I have ever heard of and they even beat the French, I studied these battles and even if I am French, I can admit that they deserve that victory. They probably lost more soldiers than both the US and France did and they dug those tunnels not with bulldozers but with hand and shovel.

I also think you made a mistake with your terminology there bud. A refugee is not a terrorist, thats probably because the news portrays palestinian refugees so much we havent separated the work terrorist and refugee. A refugee is a person who flees an area because of natural disasters or any other turmoil. They are homeless people. So if you want to bash on the homeless and say they are enemies. Well you have alot of killing to do in your nation alone because last time I checked there are alot of those in Baltimore, Chicago, NY, and other major metropolitan areas.

Bush Senior book smart? Well of course I think he has more experience then I, he is much older and a university graduate. Why would I argue that... Smart compared to other men in his field before and after him, I think not though. Roosevelt? Wilson? Jefferson? I am a foreigner living in Florida and I can tell you more about your own history, sad indeed my friend. Clinton, omg, how can you even speak in such a tone about him. He wasnt rich like all these other elites, he worked his way up the social ladder in this country and got his education in England. No, not the colonies, he got his education in the mother country, the Sun never sets on the British empire. John Kerry was a soldier like any other person and he got his medals to prove his own courage. While Bush didnt even show up to camp, lol. I dont see what the problem is with people complaining about someone trying to fight against a unjustified war. Kerry was protesting like MANY people in this country. If you want to justify a war in which we lost thousands of soldiers for a cause that was not even rightus. America was fearing the domino effect, I dont see communism everywhere now. Even after Vietnam became communist too. We preach democracy and yet we dont let people decided their own fates on what government type they want. If people in Iraq want a theocracy like Iran, why dont we respect their differences and actually work towards peace? Its not like all middle eastern countries are bad or like the koran is the book of the devil. Muslims are really related to Christians and Jews in views on religion, I dont see what the great fuss is about. Sure their are some really extreme people, but I see many other those knocking on my door on Sunday mornings while I am trying to sleep.

Last thing before I lose my temper and lash out. If your not from the USA dont respond. What is it with u man. If you had more respect for other people, I wouldnt bash on you. But ur asking for it. To inform you, I am not FROM the USA, but I live here. Its not me and my self in the world bud and you have to realize that if most foreign people criticize the US, its because there is a reason to and instead of blocking it out, you could actually be unarragent and listen and try to fix the source of the discord. I know many immigrants that are smarter than Americans who never went out of their homes or experienced other cultures. I also know many smart Americans. Those are the ones who acknowledge that we are a melting pot culture. Those are the ones who admit they them selves foreigners who come from distant lands onto conquered Native American land to persue a common goal; the American Dream. Know that you live in a democracy and that if your not happy with how the world views you and your fellow citizen, you can always vote for the better candidate and change that perception the world has of you. Right now, the world doesnt like the US that much. You probably know that and I am really sorry for that view because America has so many things and America is really fair when it comes to many things. I just dont like this capitalist, individualist, materialist, egocentrical, right wing, conservative, fundamental baptist religious, and militarist view and stand point the US has adopted. Sept. 11 happened for a reason and we have to try to figure out why. Slashing out against all Muslims will only create more terrorist and I think we are now starting to figure that out with new warnings of possible attacks soon. Figure out the source of the problem and fix it. You could start looking into why people become "terrorist" and if its connected to poverty first of all. Anyways, rambling again. Later.

1. What war have the french won to say "they EVEN beat the french"? lol

2. the N. Koreans trained the N. Vietnamese in tunneling and sent crews over to do a lot of it

3. If you are going to mention intelligent presidents and leave out John Quincy Adams, something tells me you are saying random names. John Quincy Adams was a child prodigy, he knew eight (8) languages by age 10 and could read the Odyssey in Latin, etc. When his IQ was measured they actually said they could not give a definate answer because it was off the charts. Smartest President and when "intelligence" and "president" are in the same sentence, his name must come up.

[ffmariners]

Originally Posted by shadowsniper

Do your really one of the stupiest people I have seen. You really disappoint me, especially since your a foreigner. ESPECIALLY because you are an AUZZIE. Good thing ur not a German, because Germany and France are the only intelligent countries it seems in Europe, well Spain joined the group too. You dont listen to the media or press. Wow, where do u get your information then? Conspiracy websites? Everything is media, media means anything that informs through audio, visual or other means of communications. I guess u didnt know that since English isnt ur first language, well its not mine either, but I guess that just means your not informed, oh well. Seriously dude, go read a book or something, this is hurting my brain. Many people in the US dont like Bush any more and you, a foreigner, like him. JESUS ****ING CHRIST, I am out of here. This is lame we already explained all this in previous posts that you were to lazy to read. I even said I wasnt American. Go read before u post. Anyways, I got to go work, cant wait to see the november elections results, bye.

You shouldn't go in to debates, you can not handle them. As soon as someone voices their opposing opinion they are incredibly stupid? Now you say because he is a foreigner he should not like Bush? LOL, ridiculous I tell you. I guess he would be cool in your books if he agreed with you?

[Yellow Card]

Thats some nice work ffmariners.
Good too see you back!

[IamAlejo]

Originally Posted by ffmariners

From what I have seen people with opposing viewpoints get their account disabled

I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you noticed the people in this thread, and then look at the other threads (which mods have probably deleted) just flame each other, don't stay on topic, etc, and have banned for that. A debate is just that, a debate. People are having differences of opinions. But it needs to stay in the thread.