jwb

I already said i'm not open minded on the subject either. I've made up my mind which stance I think is more productive.

But no, that's the only way to read it. You described someone who agrees with you.

Lucem Ferre

I described someone that typically agrees with me. Important word to truly get the context of what I'm saying.

I get it, you think it's more productive to sip lemon juice pretending it's lemonade and refuse to acknowledge that you can't make lemonade with out sugar. I'll leave you to that delusion.

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Frownland

Nobody and everybody.

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jwb

Him agreeing with you was built into the description, lol. If he thought making lemonade was a viable option despite all the sugar cartels rigging it against you, he wouldn't fit your description.

And the lemonade thing is just a simple way of saying try to play the hand you have as best you can. You're no more qualified to speak on it than I am, by your own standards.

Lucem Ferre

Yes, but the word typically was also built into the description meaning that those that don't are still an authority.

You don't get to cherry pick words out of what I say to push a narrative, it's as disingenuous as thinking you can just make lemonade with out sugar.

I know what the saying means but the saying assumes that everybody has the sugar to make lemonade when all life gave you was lemons, not sugar. It's not saying it's impossible to get the sugar to make lemonade it's just saying that it's not as easy making lemonade when you don't have the resources to do so and the people that act like it is are the ones that had sugar all along.

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jwb

Alright maybe I was misreading you... So are you saying people who start off poor and get rich/better off typically agree that this is a relatively futile goal and that the system is so rigged that you might as well not bother?

Like Ant claims to have grown up poor and made a decent living later on. Will you accept the same message from him that you would reject from someone else? Or would you reject the message nonetheless because it's the message you actually have a problem with.

I think the latter is honestly more reasonable to me. Arguments from authority are pretty lazy.


I think you're being a bit overly literal with it.

It's like the saying play the hand you got.. it doesn't assume you have a great hand. But their are better and worse strategies for playing it.

It's about as benign a phrase as "try to look in the bright side." There's not always necessarily a bright side. But I still think giving up any sense of hope is the worst possible strategy.

Lucem Ferre

I never said that.

I never said anything about giving up hope. Just that I'm sick of privileged people telling me that I don't have a right to feel ****ty about my situation.

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OccultHawk

Ain’t nobody on earth made lemonade from just lemons. The expression is indicative of a profound lack of understanding and a justification of not only rich people celebrating the non-achievement of having what you’re given but as an excuse to continue the current social structure that teaches us the poor deserve to be poor.

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jwb

Well since it seemed to me you ruled out poor people (those without sugar)and wealthy people(those born with sugar), the only group i could think of who "know how to make sugar but typically realize it's rigged" are people who started off poor but made something of themselves. Where did I go wrong?


Oh, I think you actually should feel somewhat ****ty about your situation, if you don't like where you are.

Making lemonade would be taking some of those ****ty feelings and using then as motivation to maybe do something differently to improve your situation.

That's the ideal.. it's easier said than done and it's not going to work every time you try it. But it's the best ideal you can strive for to try to make things better.

There's no magic solution. I think people misinterpret my ethos as saying pull yourself up your bootstraps and you'll be successful and happy in no time. If only that were true.

Instead it's focus on small goals and incremental progress that you can actually manage, and then take the time to appreciate the pragmatic differences in your life that manifest from this.

It works for me. It's about the only thing that's ever worked. But it's far from perfect and far from a get rich quick scheme.

jwb

i really think you guys miss the point of the phrase

It's not about just making lemonade. It's about using whatever you have to the best of your ability.
If you literally don't have sugar for the lemonade then you figure out a different use for them. That's how people with limited resources have gotten by for hundreds of thousands of years.