Why yes there is.

And it can be completely congruent with the cause and effect relationship of the universe as we know it as I explained.

There’s no such thing as a “more complicated” cause and effect.

lol.

What I explained to be a 'choice' is a bit more complicated form of cause and effect than the basic I throw a ball and it flies in the air.

There's no such thing as elves.

Ok now you pick another one.

That's elfist.

There totally are elves.

It’s actually just as simple.

Well, regardless I gave an example of choice being congruent, and dependent on, cause and effect.

Nitpick away, though.

TFW you acknowledge the simplicity of how something that doesn't exist works.

I want to come in your beard, Frown.

descartes argued that free will must exist because god is too supreme a being for error and therefore cannot be responsible for the mistakes of humans (or for creating faulty models). free will is what keeps us hanging between the balance of god's perfect being and nothingness/pure evil.

what a bootlicker

I thought you were above kink shaming. SMH.

To use exact language I mean is what appears to our consciousness to be a choice but in actuality isn’t.

Lucem - I’m not nitpicking. I know you get it but you don’t seem to see it with the clarity that you could so I’m trying to guide you there. Once you see it it’s crystal clear.

kink shaming is my kink

I'm choosing to post this post right now. See? Free will.

Check mate.

Another Christian argument.

I don't have a strong stance on it because it's not crystal clear.

The only thing that is clear is that you have a different understanding of what a choice is.

Is it a kink or is it just abuse?

That's a fun game to play on porn sites.

He still pushed us in the right direction by tacking a big T Truth onto the nature of existence.

I understand why it seems like that to you but there’s nothing about what I know that hinges on the supernatural.

Well played, sir.

Don't praise him for something he had no control over.

Different parameters, dogma, planetary orbit analogy, blah blah blah

Can we go back to blaming our ****ty lives on capitalism

**** capitalism!

It's 'Christian' because rather than addressing the scrutiny you dance around it by condescending with a tone that you have some kind of higher knowledge that I don't, but if you did you could provide it.

In reality it's just that Christians feel like god exists despite any information contradicting it just as you feel free will is impossible despite the information I'm giving that contradicts it.

There is no guiding if you can't defend your stance from scrutiny.

I gave an example of how choice exists with in the cause and effect relationship of the universe. Now it's on you to actually say something.

Choice doesn’t exist because cause and effect does.

Except I gave an example of choice being cause and effect.

You’re a Mormon.

Consciousness doesn't exist.

*runs away*

It’s true that it’s only physical material.

Conciousness is the byproduct.

Flying doesn't exist. Only planes and wings.

I’m not willing to entertain discussion with people who don’t understand cause and effect.

It’s true than theories like panpsychism or consciousness not even existing are far fetched. It’s a matter of grasping at straws to help contemplate a very bewildering question but there’s a prerequisite of things you have to understand before you’re ready to have those discussions. The indisputable impossibility of free will must be understood and accepted before you can move on.

It’s true that me entertaining the arguments of people who can’t grasp this caused a circular and stupid unproductive conversation.

I’ll discuss the nature of consciousness and self with Batlord but I’m not having these discussions with people who aren’t ready anymore.

Was this on another forum or...?

Don't break an arm jacking yourself off, Mr. Peterson.

Does this mean we're not going to solve the meaning of life in the "Your Day" thread on Musicbanter?

Musicbanter doesn't exist.

Chance indicates an element of randomness which is more of a point against choice because if a random element outside of our chemistry is the deciding factor, then we don't have control of it.

I think I was getting somewhere when I asked if pool balls had brains. I mean, has anybody even thought of that before?

I don't see the two as being at at odds (even though calling a predictable universe predetermined is a gross misrepresentation). But again, both sides are clearly working with different parameters of what choice is and both sides are unwilling to recognize that and it's all dogma and blah blah blah