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jwb 07-07-2022 06:25 PM

Yeah I'm speaking from my own experience.

Ayn Marx 07-07-2022 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribbons (Post 2209773)
I've always liked designer Tom Ford as a person and followed his interviews. I had no idea that Tom's husband, Richard Buckley, had passed away. So sad to learn of this - I greatly admired their relationship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLSZy0ULHtA

Thanks for posting that. Not even a mention in the gay media here but this appeared on the ABC site.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...dies/100481386

ribbons 07-07-2022 08:24 PM

Thank you for that article. I didn't know that Stella McCartney is their son's godmother. Both men truly class acts with deep love and respect for each other. Couple goals!

Queen Boo 07-08-2022 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2209781)
that's more because we don't take female predators seriously. If it's a male teacher with a female student people will lose their ****.

They also don't care about predators if they have the right letter next to their name on the ballot box.

Guybrush 07-08-2022 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2209781)
that's more because we don't take female predators seriously. If it's a male teacher with a female student people will lose their ****.

Some of it certainly has to do with a grown man putting his member inside the body of a child which would most likely cause both more physical and emotional pain and suffering. Generally speaking, the act of having sex with a grown ass woman is more likely to be physically pleasurable to young boys, though that is certainly not a guarantee it will be. I'm not saying they necessarily like it when granny sits on their face, but as a general jist of why we think differently about male and female predators, that probably has something to do with it.

Disclaimer for clarity: ofc it's all wrong. Don't bang the children.

Ayn Marx 07-08-2022 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush (Post 2209809)
Some of it certainly has to do with a grown man putting his member inside the body of a child which would most likely cause both more physical and emotional pain and suffering. Generally speaking, the act of having sex with a grown ass woman is more likely to be physically pleasurable to young boys, though that is certainly not a guarantee it will be. I'm not saying they necessarily like it when granny sits on their face, but as a general jist of why we think differently about male and female predators, that probably has something to do with it.

Disclaimer for clarity: ofc it's all wrong. Don't bang the children.

There’s some truth in what you say but for me the central issue is consent. Can, for instance, a ten year old, male or female, consent to having sex with an adult of either sex fully knowing what they’re getting themselves involved in?

My perspective is one people have argued with but I can’t get my head around the idea a young pre-pubescent child being regarded as a sexual being. Sensual maybe but sexual? So, even though my sex life started at 14 I just can’t agree with the idea of an adult seducing someone pre-pubescent. There’s another issue here seldom discussed. Today, young girls are entering pubescence far earlier than ever before due to chemicals polluting our environment triggering precocious development.

Guybrush 07-08-2022 08:15 AM

No, children can not consent. Well, they technically can by saying "yes, let's bang", but the principle that any consent a child gives is invalid is something I feel is very important. Also, they can't vote and they're full of shit.

In theory, something like a mutually beneficial / pleasurable sexual relationship could exist between adult and child (yuck). But the capacity for the child to understand the extent of what they're getting into is likely not great and the opportunity for the adult to take advantage / exploit / cause suffering is far too great. Children are vulnerable and need to be protected.

I'm pretty much a utilitarian, but I feel like the best and simplest way to deal with the issue is ofc to make it illegal. Not only does that help us avoid bad situations, but I think the general principles that it fosters in the minds and hearts of people will help reduce suffering in the world, even if it smothers the rare possibility of a mutually beneficial/functioning adult/child sexual relationship.

edit:

By the way, I read Pamela Des Barres' autobiography I'm With The Band about the groupie scene around LA in the 60s/early 70s and.. man does it seem like there was a lot of pedophilia going on. Hey, teacher. Leave 'em dicks alone!

jwb 07-08-2022 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush (Post 2209809)
Some of it certainly has to do with a grown man putting his member inside the body of a child which would most likely cause both more physical and emotional pain and suffering. Generally speaking, the act of having sex with a grown ass woman is more likely to be physically pleasurable to young boys, though that is certainly not a guarantee it will be. I'm not saying they necessarily like it when granny sits on their face, but as a general jist of why we think differently about male and female predators, that probably has something to do with it.

Disclaimer for clarity: ofc it's all wrong. Don't bang the children.

that might be a factor in some cases but it's not THE factor. For example, my friend used to blow his mom's bf when he was like 12. The dude was 40 something. There's no penetration there but I think it will be met generally with a similar kind of disgust. If it was some milf letting a young boy eat her out very few of us would feel bad for the boy...

jwb 07-08-2022 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2209812)
There’s some truth in what you say but for me the central issue is consent. Can, for instance, a ten year old, male or female, consent to having sex with an adult of either sex fully knowing what they’re getting themselves involved in?

My perspective is one people have argued with but I can’t get my head around the idea a young pre-pubescent child being regarded as a sexual being. Sensual maybe but sexual? So, even though my sex life started at 14 I just can’t agree with the idea of an adult seducing someone pre-pubescent. There’s another issue here seldom discussed. Today, young girls are entering pubescence far earlier than ever before due to chemicals polluting our environment triggering precocious development.

I don't actually believe that the way we even refer to consent in these cases has anything to do with desire to have sex, which is why it's counter intuitive. It only has to do with whether we deem you capable of responsibly making such a decision, which is a completely arbitrary standard we have set because we want to extend childhood another 10 years.

12 -14 year old brides was normal up until recently so the idea that these kids are biologically or mentally incapable of handling sex is a pretty recent invention. I do think they're probably better off being protected in this way... But then if we are perfectly honest there are definitely going to be people over the age of 20 who realistically would also be better off avoiding it.

However, people have sex drives. And I don't know about anyone else here but I think 14 years old was probably the horniest age of my life. I think everyone accepts that teenage sex with other teens is going to happen. We only bring consent in when an adult is involved because it's just about protecting them from predators really it's not actually about consenting to sex itself.

Cause if you are going to say the sex might traumatize them at that age then it stands to reason that sex with other teens also might traumatize them. We wouldn't let 6 year old have sex as long as it was with other 6 year olds, but we do this with teens because we realize intrinsically that they are sexual beings and we are attempting to suppress that or put it back in the box until we're ready to deal with it at age 18.

The Batlord 07-08-2022 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush (Post 2209820)
No, children can not consent. Well, they technically can by saying "yes, let's bang", but the principle that any consent a child gives is invalid is something I feel is very important. Also, they can't vote and they're full of shit.

In theory, something like a mutually beneficial / pleasurable sexual relationship could exist between adult and child (yuck). But the capacity for the child to understand the extent of what they're getting into is likely not great and the opportunity for the adult to take advantage / exploit / cause suffering is far too great. Children are vulnerable and need to be protected.

I'm pretty much a utilitarian, but I feel like the best and simplest way to deal with the issue is ofc to make it illegal. Not only does that help us avoid bad situations, but I think the general principles that it fosters in the minds and hearts of people will help reduce suffering in the world, even if it smothers the rare possibility of a mutually beneficial/functioning adult/child sexual relationship.

edit:

By the way, I read Pamela Des Barres' autobiography I'm With The Band about the groupie scene around LA in the 60s/early 70s and.. man does it seem like there was a lot of pedophilia going on. Hey, teacher. Leave 'em dicks alone!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAC0gkqXsAARVgg.jpg

SGR 07-08-2022 02:20 PM

It's Voosh!

Scarlett O'Hara 07-08-2022 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2209812)
There’s some truth in what you say but for me the central issue is consent. Can, for instance, a ten year old, male or female, consent to having sex with an adult of either sex fully knowing what they’re getting themselves involved in?

My perspective is one people have argued with but I can’t get my head around the idea a young pre-pubescent child being regarded as a sexual being. Sensual maybe but sexual? So, even though my sex life started at 14 I just can’t agree with the idea of an adult seducing someone pre-pubescent. There’s another issue here seldom discussed. Today, young girls are entering pubescence far earlier than ever before due to chemicals polluting our environment triggering precocious development.


I knew something was wrong with me when I was 5-6 and me and another girl showed each other's lady bits to each other. Then from age 11-12 I was extremely horny, masturbating etc. I told my friends that I used a brush :laughing: and they told me that's disgusting and embarrassing. I first had sex with a guy who was 18 while I was 15. He couldn't even get it in. I realise now how wrong that was for him to do this. Legally he was an adult. Then for some reason he made up a lie that I had told people we had sex. I got bullied, my friends deserted me for a) not telling them what happened and b) that they thought I was a liar. In the end his best friend Ange told me he told her the truth and she made sure everyone knew. As an adolescent that was the most humiliating thing and to have my friends hate me for it was unbearable.



Moral of the story, this was about 2002-3 and at this time I was very sexually awakened. Got to 2004 and I went to a party and made out with a girl who I really liked. She didn't remember the next day so I kept it to myself. I told my best friend that I think I'm bi. She was pretty sweet about it but I felt so ashamed as no one at my school was 'out'. Ironically a girl from my school tried outing me in front of the entire girls locker room calling me a **** and a lesbian and I had to tell the Dean who then forced her to admit she made it up. She came out as lesbian just after we graduated. That's how I learnt about projecting when someone bullies you for something. By 2005 (year of my high school graduation) I was very attractive and caught the attention of a 'popular' guy at my school. We flirted all year but he could never go through with dating me as I was not 'popular'.



Sorry, I am going on and on but it feels nice to share things with you all.

Ayn Marx 07-08-2022 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celladorina (Post 2209843)
I knew something was wrong with me when I was 5-6 and me and another girl showed each other's lady bits to each other. Then from age 11-12 I was extremely horny, masturbating etc. I told my friends that I used a brush :laughing: and they told me that's disgusting and embarrassing. I first had sex with a guy who was 18 while I was 15. He couldn't even get it in. I realise now how wrong that was for him to do this. Legally he was an adult. Then for some reason he made up a lie that I had told people we had sex. I got bullied, my friends deserted me for a) not telling them what happened and b) that they thought I was a liar. In the end his best friend Ange told me he told her the truth and she made sure everyone knew. As an adolescent that was the most humiliating thing and to have my friends hate me for it was unbearable.



Moral of the story, this was about 2002-3 and at this time I was very sexually awakened. Got to 2004 and I went to a party and made out with a girl who I really liked. She didn't remember the next day so I kept it to myself. I told my best friend that I think I'm bi. She was pretty sweet about it but I felt so ashamed as no one at my school was 'out'. Ironically a girl from my school tried outing me in front of the entire girls locker room calling me a **** and a lesbian and I had to tell the Dean who then forced her to admit she made it up. She came out as lesbian just after we graduated. That's how I learnt about projecting when someone bullies you for something. By 2005 (year of my high school graduation) I was very attractive and caught the attention of a 'popular' guy at my school. We flirted all year but he could never go through with dating me as I was not 'popular'.



Sorry, I am going on and on but it feels nice to share things with you all.

No apology needed - you’ve opened my eyes to a problem I thought only manifested in males - the sanctity of so called masculinity and all that twaddle.

You’ve reminded me of Queen Victoria’s attitude when it was suggested female/female sexuality should be made illegal along with the male/male kind. She didn’t see the point given she simply couldn’t imagine what two women could do with each other. Someone should have taken her aside & given her a demonstration.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-08-2022 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2209846)
No apology needed - you’ve opened my eyes to a problem I thought only manifested in males - the sanctity of so called masculinity and all that twaddle.

You’ve reminded me of Queen Victoria’s attitude when it was suggested female/female sexuality should be made illegal along with the male/male kind. She didn’t see the point given she simply couldn’t imagine what two women could do with each other. Someone should have taken her aside & given her a demonstration.


As time has gone by, I have gained a huge respect for you Ayn. Is it true she though two women would just be scissoring? Why do people event think that lol.

Ayn Marx 07-08-2022 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celladorina (Post 2209849)
As time has gone by, I have gained a huge respect for you Ayn. Is it true she though two women would just be scissoring? Why do people event think that lol.

You’ve no idea where my twisted brain first took me when I read ‘scissoring’.

As to why women thought that way its possible the common Victorian idea women shouldn’t demonstrably enjoy sex had something to do with it. On that score Queen Victoria could have enlightened them given we now know she was ( how does one say this?) dedicated to the bedroom mazurka.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-09-2022 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2209854)
You’ve no idea where my twisted brain first took me when I read ‘scissoring’.

As to why women thought that way its possible the common Victorian idea women shouldn’t demonstrably enjoy sex had something to do with it. On that score Queen Victoria could have enlightened them given we now know she was ( how does one say this?) dedicated to the bedroom mazurka.


:laughing: I hope your brain could reset after that! Yeah that makes sense, but was Victoria into women as well?

Ayn Marx 07-09-2022 09:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celladorina (Post 2209949)
:laughing: I hope your brain could reset after that! Yeah that makes sense, but was Victoria into women as well?

No, she didn’t think women could ‘do that’. It’s the reason the legislation making male/male sex in Victorian England didn’t include women/women sexual acts. Victoria just couldn’t imagine what women could do for/to each other. As I remarked previously, one of her ladies in waiting could have generously demonstrated women could indeed give each other pleasure outside her limited understanding. However, given Victoria’s appetites lord knows what that could have unleashed.

jwb 07-09-2022 10:05 PM

Maybe she was on the DL. "I can't imagine lesbian sex" feels like a pretty convenient excuse to keep it legal.

Ayn Marx 07-10-2022 06:29 PM

Had a surprise visit from my cousin I’d not seen in over 40 years. Worked as a trucker along the East Coast of Australia. I once hitched a ride with him to Brisbane during which I soon learnt he wasn’t straight. He explained truckers like him ‘entertained' large numbers of hitchers. Needless to say I soon learnt to avail myself of the joys of the interstate highway.
Claims he's now happily married to a lovely woman yet while visiting he drew my attention to this sight. Methinks if he still drove trucks he’d still be providing ‘entertainment’ to lonely hitchers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/502184200762862/

Ayn Marx 07-15-2022 02:07 AM

Where have all the poofs & dyXs gone ? Not that many of our lesbian friends hang around establishments such as this which is a shame. Their perspective on hetro males, if caustic, can be amusing at times.

WWWP 07-15-2022 02:29 AM

*raises hand in apprehension*

Marie Monday 07-15-2022 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2210665)
Where have all the poofs & dyXs gone ? Not that many of our lesbian friends hang around establishments such as this which is a shame. Their perspective on hetro males, if caustic, can be amusing at times.

Mate the women of this forum are statistically very gay
We're not all manhaters you know but I feel like this is accurate:
https://i.imgur.com/9lvHAU0.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/xDgQsAc.png

Ayn Marx 07-15-2022 03:21 AM

I wasn’t aware I’d suggested all women are man haters. On the other hand I’ve too frequently witnessed straight female friends treated in public by dyXs as sex objects in exactly the same way many straight males treat other women in public. At times this has had me thinking- “Hang on, you’re behaving towards other women exactly in the way you object to men doing to you” I ran this by a close lesbian friend just now & she suggested these women are taking male hormones the make them behave that way. I have no idea if there’s any truth in that. Hope I’ve managed to explain my puzzlement - this is a risky area to discuss I’m told.

The Batlord 07-15-2022 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2210676)
I wasn’t aware I’d suggested all women are man haters. On the other hand I’ve too frequently witnessed straight female friends treated in public by dyXs as sex objects in exactly the same way many straight males treat other women in public. At times this has had me thinking- “Hang on, you’re behaving towards other women exactly in the way you object to men doing to you” I ran this by a close lesbian friend just now & she suggested these women are taking male hormones the make them behave that way. I have no idea if there’s any truth in that. Hope I’ve managed to explain my puzzlement - this is a risky area to discuss I’m told.

What a weird, creepy liar.

ribbons 07-15-2022 09:45 AM

People who objectify women exist in the straight male community and in the lesbian community (and in the bi, trans, and genderqueer communities too, I should think). Not all straight males objectify women, nor do all lesbians. It has nothing to do with being straight male, lesbian, etc. It has to do with being a person who objectifies women.

Marie Monday 07-15-2022 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2210680)
What a weird, creepy liar.

Yeah that's the weirdest form of bull**** sexism I've heard about in a long time. Sounds TERF-ish tbh

Anyway no worries Ayn, the manhater comment was tongue-in-cheek

ribbons 07-15-2022 01:41 PM

*** googles TERF ***

You learn something new every day - thanks, Marie.

I'm not an expert on the subject but even if a lesbian or transitioning-to-male person takes male hormones, I hardly think that automatically makes them objectify women! :rolleyes:

WWWP 07-15-2022 02:32 PM

To be fair women do take testosterone often for hormonal imbalance issues, especially once menopausal, and it does often lead to an exceptionally high increase in things like libido.

No correlation to higher probability of behaving like a douchebag, though.

ribbons 07-15-2022 02:55 PM

High increase in libido yes. Behaving like a douchebag, it ain't necessary so. That's a character issue, I think.

The Batlord 07-15-2022 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribbons (Post 2210750)
*** googles TERF ***

You learn something new every day - thanks, Marie.

I'm not an expert on the subject but even if a lesbian or transitioning-to-male person takes male hormones, I hardly think that automatically makes them objectify women! :rolleyes:

Whatever you do don't Google JK Rowling. Stay simple and pure.

ribbons 07-15-2022 02:58 PM

*** automatically Googles JK Rowling *** :laughing:

Ayn Marx 07-15-2022 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2210680)
What a weird, creepy liar.

It helps if you tell us who it is you’re making statements about.

The Batlord 07-15-2022 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx (Post 2210769)
It helps if you tell us who it is you’re making statements about.

The person I was quoting?

WWWP 07-15-2022 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2210758)
Whatever you do don't Google JK Rowling. Stay simple and pure.

Lol who gives a **** about her she’s not even the most interesting JK.

The Batlord 07-15-2022 07:22 PM

Qui-Gon is the true JK.

Ayn Marx 07-15-2022 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP (Post 2210780)
Lol who gives a **** about her she’s not even the most interesting JK.

True, but I sometimes wonder if Rowling believes everything that comes out of her mouth or simply raves away to attract attention.
Germain Greer has been guilty of the same game blathering nonsense at times to the media yet in her role as an academic, demonstrating she has a mind to be reckoned with. Not that I’m suggesting Rowling has hidden intellectual depths we’ve yet to appreciate.

Ayn Marx 07-18-2022 05:09 AM

Can we return to Russia for a moment.
Who know male/male rape in times of war is common though seldom spoken of openly by returning armies. Russians in Ukraine are no different. There’s an aspect of our species deluded behaviour I’ve never understood, the attraction of the forbidden. Why is it so many are turned on by acts they themselves publicly denigrate and forbid?

https://cepa.org/russia-a-state-of-homophobia/

Queen Boo 07-18-2022 12:57 PM

TERFs are second wave feminists who hate men so much they have become obsessed with biological determinism which has turned them into social conservatives and ironically they end up pushing all the same patriarchal myths about womanhood.

JK Rowling told Matt Walsh how much she loves his transphobia movie, Walsh is an open theocratic fascist (literally in his Twitter bio) who wants to bring back arranged marriages and make women into sex slaves, but hey as far as TERFs are concerned simply wanting to eliminate trans people is enough to make you an ally for "women's rights".

Ayn Marx 07-18-2022 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Boo (Post 2211067)
TERFs are second wave feminists who hate men so much they have become obsessed with biological determinism which has turned them into social conservatives and ironically they end up pushing all the same patriarchal myths about womanhood.

JK Rowling told Matt Walsh how much she loves his transphobia movie, Walsh is an open theocratic fascist (literally in his Twitter bio) who wants to bring back arranged marriages and make women into sex slaves, but hey as far as TERFs are concerned simply wanting to eliminate trans people is enough to make you an ally for "women's rights".

What’s a TERF?

Marie Monday 07-18-2022 05:02 PM

she's literally explaining it in the post you quote. TERF is short for trans-exclusionary radical feminist.


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