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Old 10-19-2019, 08:13 PM   #23081 (permalink)
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Spoiler for .:
Porque no los dos? What you describe is the central focus of the film, but I think that the director implemented that message that responding in violence only results in chaos to show that while the joker's environment created him, it doesn't justify his actions.

I also don't think that the sequel is the intention, but I think that it was something that they prepped the script for if producers and box office success compels it and what I described would be a cool route for them to take if so.
But there was no alternative to the Joker's end result. There was no, "He's wrong and here's why and here's what we can do if we do something better". The whole city just sided with the Joker because they saw no alternative to fight the Wayne oligarchy and they didn't even seek an alternative. Violence was the solution point blank no question.

The end result of the movie sided with the Joker, and if the end result wasn't pretty it wasn't because the movie was seeking for a more palatable solution, it was because it was a movie that was spreading its evil batwings to side with the villain and not give the audience any alternative. This was a ****ing villain movie. It doesn't exist to exist within the greater hero universe, it exists to raise up the villain. That's why it's so ugly and seedy and unpleasant. It doesn't even necessarily reflect the director's viewpoint, it reflects the Joker's viewpoint. The movie ends with raising the Joker up as the hero regardless of whether or not that's the viewpoint of the people who made the movie.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:16 PM   #23082 (permalink)
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But there was no alternative to the Joker's end result. There was no, "He's wrong and here's why and here's what we can do if we do something better". The whole city just sided with the Joker because they saw no alternative to fight the Wayne oligarchy and they didn't even seek an alternative. Violence was the solution point blank no question.

The end result of the movie sided with the Joker, and if the end result wasn't pretty it wasn't because the movie was seeking for a more palatable solution, it was because it was a movie that was spreading its evil batwings to side with the villain and not give the audience any alternative. This was a ****ing villain movie. It doesn't exist to exist within the greater hero universe, it exists to raise up the villain. That's why it's so ugly and seedy and unpleasant. It doesn't even necessarily reflect the director's viewpoint, it reflects the Joker's viewpoint. The movie ends with raising the Joker up as the hero regardless of whether or not that's the viewpoint of the people who made the movie.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:41 PM   #23083 (permalink)
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When I came out of the theater I felt worse than I did after I went in. I felt seedy and gross and like the human race was worse than I thought they were two hours earlier and I honestly think that's what the point of the movie was even beyond the message because I don't see how it was trying to be in any way uplifting. And as far as I'm concerned ruining your night is a perfectly good artistic intent and The Joker succeeded in that for me. Great movie.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:42 AM   #23084 (permalink)
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Way better than I expected it to be. Both Crowe and Gosling were perfect.

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:34 PM   #23085 (permalink)
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Oh hey chula.

I thought you left mb

I saw Joker too
Spoiler for .:
i liked the whole tone of the movie but i found the first half of the movie a bit boring, i started to get into it more on the second half. I remember when i first saw the trailer for it and thought "oh no. They gonna humanize him" which is something i personally didnt care for cus to me the joker is such a great villain that i dont particularly want to see him be vulnerable and feel sorry for him but to my surprise it didnt completely take that pity route. Instead it had this unsettling mental problems tone that didnt make me feel bad for him or encourage his behavior and while the first half of the movie establishes that tone well for the rest of the movie i also felt the joker in that half coulda been any character with a mental problem. Thats why i liked the 2nd half more cus it gets to the breakin points where the joker started to surface. Oh and that scene where he meets bruce imo was dumb af. It left me with the lingering thought that the joker is too dam old for batman. I dont mind they tied the story to thomas to create a vendetta towards the wayne family. For me him meeting thomas and that last scene with bruce's parents was enough to tie it to batman thats why i felt that gate scene with bruce felt unnecessary and just awkward.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:39 PM   #23086 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:48 PM   #23087 (permalink)
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Spoiler for Jokes:
I think that they used the Gary Glitter song to insinuate that he is a repressed paedophile.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:53 PM   #23088 (permalink)
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lol i did get that vibe during that gate scene



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Last edited by Black Francis; 10-20-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:05 PM   #23089 (permalink)
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Incel.
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“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”
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Old 10-20-2019, 04:13 PM   #23090 (permalink)
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Do you think the movie will start any dialogue about treatment of the mentally ill or about how mass shooting discussions should include society's complicity in creating them?

Cause I mean I think the movie was pretty explicit in calling out society as a whole as being responsible for a lot of things they like to pass off as being simply the responsibility of the perpetrator.
Half the forum turned elph's breakdown into a punchline.

People that portray themselves as something better.

That should be your answer.
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