I think Halo could be viewed the same way. In fact, I'd argue that Halo has changed far less in the 9 years it's been around then COD in the 7 I think it's been around. That's just my take on it, though.

Maybe I'm easy to please when it comes to video games (by your standards), but I definitely wouldn't call myself just casual.

The COD games themselves are indeed good games, but there's a very important difference between Halo and COD...

I'm a forum addict, I'll admit that now. I've accumulated some 5,000 posts on the Infinity Ward forums over the last 3 years. Bungie doesn't tally your posts but I imagine I've got at least 2,000 there. I'm also a part of the Epic Games forums, the Dice forums, etc etc etc. My point is, I've spent a lot of time at the hub of developer-player interaction for a lot of game franchises. From my experience I can plainly state that Infinity Ward doesn't give a flying f**k about their games. (It's tough to distinguish if, and how much so, this is Activision's fault, but that's another story...) The geometry glitch on COD4's map "Overgrown" was never fixed! The M9 silencer in MW2 was never fixed! (Among a plethora of other things) No beta, extremely barebones post-release patching, uninspired and overpriced DLC (15 bucks for 3 maps and 2 remakes? Really?)... some of these things may seem trivial, but as a whole, they really spell out the difference between developers who actually care and those who don't.

I mean... just watch one of the 5 or so Bungie ViDocs that was released before Reach came out. They exhibit people who are clearly making games because they love making games. They're enthusiastic and sincere. To me, as someone who invests a fair amount of his free time on enjoying the games that these people develop, it makes all the difference.

Modern Warfare 2 and Call of Duty 4 are good games, but both were plagued by stringent development cycles and insufficient testing/patching on all fronts. In my eyes, they are games that are clearly milking the videogaming audience for all it's worth. It's an insult to us all, really, just as most people on this forum find Nickelback an insult to music.

But I just want to be clear that this is NOT a COD vs. Halo affair. On the spectrum of developers and franchises that I'm at least fairly familiar with, Infinity Ward/COD happens to be towards the very bottom and Bungie happens to be towards the very top.

I've got an embarrassing amount of days playtime logged on 4/6 combined, and I fail too see how hype is relevant in determining the quality of a game. Regardless of how much money is poured into advertising for a game, the game will in fact play at quality-level X and have X number of issues and glitches. I think the COD formula is massive fun, but the games have so much damned wasted potential.

IDK, I'd like to think that my hate for COD is anything but blind. I'd like to think it's very carefully constructed and well supported.

^From this post, what I get is that you don't like CoD, but it has a lot to do with the developers and you actually think the formula is massive fun and have an embarassing amount of days playtime on number 4 and 6 combined. Still, according to previous posts, you admit to being a CoD hater and compare liking CoD to being a fan of pop music.

I'm confused, but probably not half as confused as you are :p:

Yeah, that's what I thought when you compared CoD to pop music. The charting pop music you linked to is hyped, that's why it's up there. I guessed hype was the reason you don't like CoD and as you say, that wouldn't be a relevant way of determining it's quality, hence my reply.

Lol, I'm not confused, I just regret spending so much time on the series. It wasn't until a couple weeks into MW2's release that I realized how crappy it all was. I thought Infinity Ward was the greatest developer ever while COD4 was still a fresh game.

I think you're misusing the word hype. The chart of music I linked, according to the website itself, is "The week's most popular songs across all genres, ranked by radio airplay audience impressions as measured by Nielsen BDS, sales data, and streaming activity data." That music is, in fact, the most popular music of the week. Similarly, Call of Duty, according to sales numbers for MW2 and BO, is in fact one of the most popular game franchises ever.

I'm not saying that COD sucks because it's popular. There are plenty popular games that are also excellent games (Half Life), just as there are plenty popular albums/artists/songs that are also excellent albums/artists/songs. I'm simply making the comparison that COD is the Nickelback of videogames... it's "good" to those who really can't be bothered in doing the research and having the experience/playtime to form an opinion based on more than just "I like it".

Well, I still think COD is more innovative than Halo personally, regardless of how shrewd the company's intentions are behind the game. Bobby Kotick may be a raging ****head, but it doesn't make COD any more or less good.

And I don't think the music and video game comparison in terms of popularity is a good one, since with video games the best selling ones tend to actually be good as opposed to music. Just look at the GTAs, CODs, Halos. All games that get good reviews and sell well.

That sounds really cool. I have a few friends who play it so maybe I'll try out the multiplayer. Open world games <3

Myself: I had another playthrough of Batman: Arkham Asylum last week and I forgot just how fun it is. Really everything in the game is handled well, and the action is incredibly fun as well as having some of the easiest controls I've ever seen in an action game (this is on PC). But the best part is when you're trapped in a room full of guys with guns. Swooping around... taking them out one by one.... evading their gazes... sall so fun. The only thing I felt disappointed about was the final battle, which felt really anticlimactic and easy.

I've also been playing Fallout: New Vegas. And it's one of the best games I've ever played. The world is enthralling and immensely rewarding to explore, even more than Fallout 3 in my opinion. VATS is still cool and I just love those shots where the camera follows the bullet right into your enemies brainpan. The sense of humor and fun pervading the game is also maybe its best feature, because I never feel like I'm in a dull world and there's always funny little details to pick up. Stumbling upon an interesting little story told in a series of several computer terminals that needed to be hacked inside a ruined robot factory was made so much more interesting just because of how off-the-record it was. Nowhere were you notified that there was a quest to be had; you just had to find your way around and it eventually led to a very worthwhile end. Also, The Strip, with all its warring factions and neon lights and gambling and prostitutes, is awesome.

So yeah it's an incredible game.

I don't really agree. I've read a couple star reviews of black ops now by people who seem to have real appreciation for the series and their positive opinions didn't seem like they were based on a lack of experience or reasoning.

I'll take my chances. ;)

Just got my Xbox back today...woot! Actually, they ended up replacing it instead of fixing it. Whatever, I'm not complaining. So tonight, I played "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader" for a while with my hubby and room mate. Then we played "Left 4 Dead". Man, it's been too long having not played. I failed so hard. My aiming was terrible and can I just say, I hate those damn witches. I always end up waking them up on accident.

I remember the first time I played that game. It was pretty late at night and we had the volume up pretty high. My friend told me that the woman crying needed to be rescued. I nearly crapped my ****ing pants...

what did it innovate (honest question - not trolling)? Halo actually did bring something revolutionary to the FPS genre (the whole 'progressive' health method). what did CoD bring to the table that hadn't already been there in one form or another since?

personal opinion doesn't matter to innovation, it's an objective thing, they either developed and presented a brand new idea for the medium (which i can't think of) or they borrowed from their predecessors like most others (which is like faulting a rock band for having a bass player).

and before anyone says it, nicer graphics is not innovation. it's a reflection of better hardware being mass produced. few programmers still write efficient code, what's the point? just slap on another processor and more ram and stick in a juicier power supply and you're laughing so long as you can still cover the power bill.

That's not what I meant when I said innovative. I meant that the COD games have evolved much more over time then the Halo games. Comparing Black Ops to the original COD to me shows a much bigger change then what seems like the same engines in Combat Evolved to Reach.

Anyways I believe that (as someone already mentioned) COD was the first game to introduce the whole playing on different sides aspect of WWII, as games like Medal of Honor only offered American campaigns beforehand. Oh, and Call of Duty was the first to do Killcam too. That in itself I think took more innovation then just another form of health recovery.

And what exactly do you mean by 'progressive health'? If you mean regenerating health, you are wrong as it wasn't the first (and Halo 1 used health packs, remember?).

Read up if you don't believe me: http://www.giantbomb.com/regenerating-health/92-83/

Aiming down the sights was more fresh to gaming when COD used it then regenerating health in Halo.

:laughing:
I'm so gonna do that to someone now.

Man, the opening film for the original Left 4 Dead is so badass.

Answer to aiming is always PC gaming.

i wouldn't say always. i hope some peripheral superior to a mouse comes along at some point.

So true. By now it's probably because I'm so used to it, but I've always found aiming and really doing anything immensely easier with a mouse (/keyboard).

what mouse do y'all use for gaming?

http://lokalhoszt.hu/pics/keptarto/cikkkep1_54_nagy.jpg
Love this mouse. Have two of those and keep my eyes open for more :)

first you need to learn the definition of innovation - Innovation | Define Innovation at Dictionary.com

just because the most recent iteration of a series is significantly different than it's original release doesn't mean it's innovative, only that it's different.

how does linking to something that proves the Halo franchise did offer actual innovation to the genre invalidate my claim of their innovation?

as for playing both sides of WW2 - Return to Castle Wolfenstein had that covered 6 months before the first CoD.

killcam? might not have been called the same in counterstrike but that doesn't mean your screen wouldn't change to the view of whoever killed you before you started clicking through other camers.

aiming down iron sights... not exactly a real thing. it's no different than being able to click to zoom in with a slight dynamic variation to the interface overlay. instead of closing in to a circle a la James Bond intro it zooms in just a little and changes the way the weapon is displayed. it's a smoke and mirrors parlour trick (and zooming has been a standard feature for years). it might have been new to you but if you honestly think that partial zoom with a different overlay is truly more innovative than a brand new health system for an established genre well... all i can say isn't nice. especially in regards to that last line of yours. really...

Maybe you ought to show a little respect, I don't appreciate being treated like a child. I know what innovation means, stop trying to appear intelligent by proving you can link to a page on the internet. Furthermore, I could say Modern Warfare was innovative for the COD series because it introduced perks to the series. Makes perfect sense, davey boy.

Most people will tell you progression is a good thing, as familiarity becomes stale.

Did you read anything past the first sentence?

Cool. Like I said, I was unsure of that.

Not the same thing as killcam.

You don't think it's cool, good for you. I don't give a **** to be honest. I think it definitely changes things up. And for the 100th time, Halo added NOTHING in innovation of a new health system for FPS's. If you had actually read my link thoroughly rather than half-assing it, you'd know that.

As you can see, I stopped being respectful after you did. I've seen you argue on these forums, you refuse to admit you'd ever be wrong in any way. I'm not wasting any more time with such a trivial debate.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. again.

Dave, tuna.
It's just a game ;).

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/...ver%281%29.PNG

I started up my Gamefly account on Tuesday and this came in the mail yesterday and will go out in the mail today because I beat it :o: Pretty fun game that looks absolutely beautiful (for a war torn hell hole) but besides being a little on the short side the story was a little too much on the short bus side for me.

CODs story mode always sucks. Maybe the early ones were alright, but thEy are mainly for the multiplayer, which I think MW2 is pretty fun.

You do PC, Xbox, or Ps3?

I thought CoD4 had a pretty believable story in it, but MW2 just seemed to go off on the deep end, I think Yahtzee put it right when he said that the dev's couldn't believe how well the first one sold so they wanted to see how much they could get away with on the second one. Regardless I enjoyed the 4 hours it took me to beat it and look forward to trying those one off side missions, but I'm not a multiplayer kind of person, regardless of how amazing it is but I was also aware of the shortness of MW2 so I won't gripe on that too much. It definitely takes CoD4 to the next level, even if they did try a little too hard to recapture the same shock and awe from CoD4. I have Battlefield Bad Company 2 and the new Medal of Honor games lined up in my Gamefly que.

must... resist.... urge... to bash.... COD...

Well, don't hold it in... Make some conversation!!!

How about this: I've decided I'm going to build my own computer this holiday season. I'd really love to be able to play Diablo III (I can't wait to get repeatedly gouged in the butthole by Activision...) and Portal 2 when they come out so I went and joined a computer forum for help.

I'm just going to order all the bits off newegg and assemble it sometime around Christmas. Looks like it'll cost a cool $1,500 USD but it should be a top-of-line rig for several years, with easily upgradeable components when it starts to fall behind.

i want to upgrade my computer but i'd have to get a new cpu, mobo, and ram. i can run any game I want, usually at max settings. i suppose i'm good for another couple of years...

http://latestvideogamecheats.com/wp-...e-xbox-360.jpg

Awesome game so far though I'm still very early in it. Very atmospheric, the score is perfect and the environment is beautiful and scary. Anyone else played this?

Yes, I have completed it and the first extra episode that was released. It's not the brilliant gem I was hoping it would be (was waiting for that game a few years actually), but a very good game still. The story and the way it's executed is all very good and very well done. The only thing that I thought didn't work so well was the general gameplay. For those who don't know, it's in third person and for the most part, it's an action game where you fight a lot. These fights get repetitive and sometimes feel like fillers between the excellent story parts. I think the game would've been more fun, scarier and more immersive had it been an FPS actually, although the redesign that would require would of course be a bit much to ask for.

Still a very good game, though! It'd perhaps give it a 5 out of 6.

I could see that being the case from my early impressions. I read reviews for it and they were complaining about a lack of "epic moments" so to speak that you described partly. I think they're making a sequel though which hopefully will rectify that issue.

I also enjoyed CoD4. Never cared much for MW2, though.
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 is more fun in my opinion, but of course, that's my opinion.


I've been playing...

http://www.markeedragon.com/screensh..._2551329_n.jpg
http://www.gamespact.com/wp-content/...ghtmare610.jpg

I almost want to buy an Xbox for Red Dead.

It's quite literally one of the best games I've ever played (counting Online AND Offline).

If I have the original, and love it. Should I get Undead Nightmare, or is basically the same game?

Undead Nightmare is an add-on for Red Dead Redemption, that add's a new Single Player story (it's around 6-10 hours long, depending on how you play) and can be bought on a network (Playstation Network or Xbox Live) for Ten dollars, or the equivalent (800 MSP).

It also add's some multiplayer content:
Undead OverRun - Basically a 1-4 player co-op Zombie Horde Mode
Land Grab - A game you play in free roam online in which posse's try to control a certain area of the map.
Zombie Characters for online play - You can play as Zombie Marston, Zombie Ricketts and a few others.

It's worth the ten dollars in my opinion.

You could also do what I did and buy the disc, if you don't have the other two add-ons (Legends & Killers and Liars & Cheats) and want to play online with the extra content. If you buy the disc, it's thirty dollars, but it contains the three add-ons that are ten dollars each anyway, and in the case you get an Undead Nightmare foldout map.


So, if you're asking if it's worth the ten dollars for just the add-on, yes.
If you're thinking about getting the disc and don't have ANY of the add-ons, that's also worth the thirty dollars it asks (since you basically get a free new fold-out map/poster and an actual disc).

The only downside about having the seperate disc is that you can't use the Tomahawk/any of the new weapons on the regular Red Dead Redemption if you purchase the Undead Nightmare disc, but I don't feel like that would have been a big selling point to me anyway, because after I beat the game, I'm just playing online.

If I know Rockstar at all, I'm sure it's a hell of a deal. There's two things they're amazing at: consistently making high quality games, and giving you a lot of bang for your buck.

I've also heard that the gameplay has been tweaked a little bit to evoke a feeling of other survival horror games where you have to manage your resources a little more thoroughly, i.e. not kill every living (or unliving) thing you see. I will eventually get Red Dead Redemption and maybe even Undead Nightmare, but in the meantime I've been playing:

Resident Evil 5, Gears of War 2, and I just got Battlefield: Bad Company 2 from Gamefly in the mail today. So far first thoughts on the first two:

Resident Evil 5 feels weird playing it on an Xbox controller, for some reason I have been having some controller issues that has made the game a little bit more challenging, but I'm sure that will pass with enough time. It's pretty nice on a graphics level and not much has changed from Resident Evil 4's except for the god awful inventory system. I definitely miss the attache case from Resident Evil 4 but seeing as how every reviewer has brought up the inventory system in their critiques I won't beat a dead horse.

Gears of War 2 is pretty much what I expected, still heavily reliant on the cover based combat, even though at times it seems questionable, at least on a lower difficulty. I actually restarted the game and changed it to a harder difficulty so I could make the most out of the cover based combat gameplay. I do like the addition of being able to use downed locust members as shields, but I have yet to engage in a chainsaw duel, which was one of the gameplay mechanics highlighted in the previews. The general feel of GoW2 feels pretty unchanged but I suppose why fuck with something that proved to be very popular in the past, I mean just look at the God of War series for evidence of that. I have to say I really enjoyed the worm chapter and it's definitely a game I would go back to play for shits and giggles, definitely $15 well spent.

Now time to get some homework done so I can enjoy Battlefield Bad Company 2 this week while devoting equal amount of time for finals.

Whatever you do, don't try Gears 2;s multiplayer. You'd be better off sticking your **** in a blender