The Beatles vs The Beach Boys

FRED HALE SR. · 09-24-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

What's sophisticated about the lyrics? A small fairytale about "strawberry fields?" I can understand the variety of rhythms/sounds but I would hardly call it layering. They were quite separate. The melodies were simple. Imagination was simple. Lyrics were simple.

But it was creative, I agree. Perhaps that would contribute in a way.

I find it complex. I guess I look at the lyrics as somebody whos dealing with depression and contemplating suicide. I never viewed it as just some guy whos gonna go hang out at a strawberry field and pick strawberries.

NYSPORTSFAN · 09-24-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

What's sophisticated about the lyrics? A small fairytale about "strawberry fields?" I can understand the variety of rhythms/sounds but I would hardly call it layering. They were quite separate. The melodies were simple. Imagination was simple. Lyrics were simple.

But it was creative, I agree. Perhaps that would contribute in a way.

Really why is this debatable? The imagination of the sound simple? "Strawberry Fields Forever" is a deeply layered song with all sorts of instruments ranging from cellos, mellotron, backward cymbals, brass instruments, percussion, Indian instruments added to the basic rock instrumentation. There all sorts of dissonant sounds on the fade out that fades in backwards and then fades out.

Rjinn · 09-24-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

I find it complex. I guess I look at the lyrics as somebody whos dealing with depression and contemplating suicide. I never viewed it as just some guy whos gonna go hang out at a strawberry field and pick strawberries.

Neither did I, the song didn't come off that realistic to me. Just an escape to imagination land.

Though contemplating suicide? That's an interesting interpretation...

Rjinn · 09-24-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYSPORTSFAN

Really why is this debatable? The imagination of the sound simple? "Strawberry Fields Forever" is a deeply layered song with all sorts of instruments ranging from cellos, mellotron, backward cymbals, brass instruments, percussion, Indian instruments added to the basic rock instrumentation. There all sorts of dissonant sounds on the fade out that fades in backwards and then fades out.

Now you're just talking mostly technical with a number of instruments. Taking it as the whole idea and big picture, really there's not much to it. Fading out and in isn't exactly "sophisticated" and uncommon. Again I would hardly call it deeply layered because the rhythms were interchanging but apart and you kind of had to wait for the next one to come along.

NYSPORTSFAN · 09-24-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

Now you're just talking mostly technical with a number of instruments. Taking it as the whole idea and big picture, really there's not much to it. Fading out and in isn't exactly "sophisticated" and uncommon. Again I would hardly call it deeply layered because the rhythms were interchanging but apart and you kind of had to wait for the next one to come along.

Please give me an example like "Strawberry Fields Forever" which basically manages to fuse the world of electronica, Indian instrumentation, avant garde , classical all in one song? Please give me another example of a song that fades out and fades in with a dissonant musical piece?

I guess you have to be Brian Wilson or music producers of 1967 to understand what I am talking about?

I don't think the Beatles are the start and ending of music but have a little perspective in what they were doing.

blastingas10 · 09-24-2012, 08:35 PM

I don't think he was trying to say the Beatles weren't pop, he was trying to say they weren't merely your average, typical pop band. They were at the top of the rock/pop world in terms of creativity and musical composition, I don't think there is any question about that.

There's really no point in comparing the Beatles to sun ra, they were completely different breeds. And I don't think NYSPORTSFAN ever claimed the Beatles were as experimental as someone like sun ra.

Janszoon said something about people thinking the Beatles were some kind of magical beings, and their music may have been praised by certain musicologists, but they laughed at any praise of the kind. Sun Ra is the one who claimed he was from sort of angel race that originated on mars rather than earth

**Janszoon** · 09-24-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

I don't think he was trying to say the Beatles weren't pop, he was trying to say they weren't merely your average, typical pop band. They were at the top of the rock/pop world in terms of creativity and musical composition, I don't think there is any question about that.

Were they? I don't know. It's impossible to discuss them in any sort of reasonable way because of all the goalpost shifting and definition changing that goes on when it comes to the Beatles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

There's really no point in comparing the Beatles to sun ra, they were completely different breeds. And I don't think NYSPORTSFAN ever claimed the Beatles were as experimental as someone like sun ra.

Janszoon said something about people thinking the Beatles were some kind of magical beings, and their music may have been praised by certain musicologists, but they laughed at any praise of the kind. Sun Ra is the one who claimed he was from sort of angel race that originated on mars rather than earth

I think both he and now you are completely missing the point of the comparison.

blastingas10 · 09-24-2012, 11:09 PM

I'd say they certainly were. Influence is one thing that nobody can question. I think you may be a little bitter because some people think they're so great and they overshadow a band like The Beach Boys, whom you prefer. Maybe not, just a theory.

I don't think anyone here is being unreasonable about them, Other than expressing feelings and ideas that you may not agree with.

**Janszoon** · 09-25-2012, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

I'd say they certainly were. Influence is one thing that nobody can question. I think you may be a little bitter because some people think they're so great and they overshadow a band like The Beach Boys, whom you prefer. Maybe not, just a theory.

Bitter? lol. No, I'm just of the opinion that the sun doesn't shine out of their asses. That tends to be controversial for some reason, but it's something I've noticed since long before I delved into the Beach Boys so it really has nothing to do with them at all. I like the Beatles. Revolver, Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road are all fantastic albums and they have lots of other great material as well, though I think their other albums are all varying degrees of hit-or-miss. I just think the superlatives that get heaped on them are kind of ridiculous and generally seem to be the product of a very myopic way of looking at music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

I don't think anyone here is being unreasonable about them, Other than expressing feelings and ideas that you may not agree with.

I think it's pretty unreasonable to compare their album output to someone like Chuck Berry, whose heyday was before the album era. And that's the specific issue that started this whole conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

Another thing about the sun ra ordeal, What was the point of the comparison? Sun ra was doing stuff that was much more experimental than the Beatles at the same time sgt peppers came out, is that point? If so, then so what? You were the guy who said that superior technical ability didn't equal better music, so what difference does it make if sun ra was more experimental, other than just trying to prove a point?

The other poster was claiming that that Beatles experimented in "every way possible"—the kind of grandiose claim about them that I'm referring to above—and I was simply pointing out that they had contemporaries who were doing far more experimental, unusual things than they were.

Howard the Duck · 09-24-2012, 11:25 PM

it's so passe analysing the Beatles

can't we analyse Herman's Hermits, instead?

they were clearly superior

09-24-2012, 11:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	I'd say they certainly were. Influence is one thing that nobody can question. I think you may be a little bitter because some people think they're so great and they overshadow a band like The Beach Boys, whom you prefer. Maybe not, just a theory. I don't think anyone here is being unreasonable about them, Other than expressing feelings and ideas that you may not agree with. Last edited by blastingas10; 09-24-2012 at 11:16 PM.

09-24-2012, 08:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	I don't think he was trying to say the Beatles weren't pop, he was trying to say they weren't merely your average, typical pop band. They were at the top of the rock/pop world in terms of creativity and musical composition, I don't think there is any question about that. There's really no point in comparing the Beatles to sun ra, they were completely different breeds. And I don't think NYSPORTSFAN ever claimed the Beatles were as experimental as someone like sun ra. Janszoon said something about people thinking the Beatles were some kind of magical beings, and their music may have been praised by certain musicologists, but they laughed at any praise of the kind. Sun Ra is the one who claimed he was from sort of angel race that originated on mars rather than earth