Rainard Jalen

Huh? It's hardly rocket science. Since we're talking Tool, all you do is listen to Schism a few times, think "well THAT opening sounds pretty damn good", and so make Vicarious.

Miltamec Soundsquinaez

Really? Well, I was actually describing what Danny Carey said in an interview, so I guess you could watch Danny Carey describe how his band creates a song, and then say he didn't explain it.

LOL @ Rainerd Jalen for implying that Tool are commercial sellouts who prefer record sales over innovation. They have specifically built a career out of staying away from the media as much as possible, much the way Led Zeppelin did. You don't see Maynard or Adam Jones popping up all over guitar magazine. It's because they care more about their art than their image. They don't particularly care about the marketing side, and the fact that they remain successful is a huge testament to the quality of their music.

Rainard Jalen

Oh come on it was tongue in cheek .

I don't particularly want to resurrect this argument, but I'll say this much: cloaking themselves in obscurity and mystery is all a part of the marketing. Maynard himself has commented in interviews about the early behaviour of the band, what they had to do in order to survive in the post-grunge dominated scene etc. Enshrouding themselves in enigma is largely how they built their popular reputation and were thereby marketed. Loz, the band has always had this habit of spreading little rumours here and there, little stunts and whatnot. Look up lachrymology, for instance. One of the very cleverest most ingenious things about Tool is the uncanny subtlety of their marketing.

Oh, and Maynard has done quite a few odd little ventures over the past 7 years or so. You should probably investigate a little closer before making sweeping statements.

BTW in case you don't really get my point, I wasn't using this to diss or slate Tool. Just stating the case as it is. It doesn't add to or detract from their musical achievements.

Miltamec Soundsquinaez

I sit around in my truck and sometimes write songs and poetry, and never reveal these to anyone outside of musicbanter, and so I'm taking out a mortgage on a $200,000 house next week.

I'll have to say that you did make some good points, but my point is that obscurity and mystery alone will not put you on the map. Opiate didn't have a sound that guaranteed success. It was an alternative metal album at the time when grunge was the scene. Undertow slowed down a bit, but it doesn't sound relatively much like Nevermind or Ten, or the popular rock albums of that time.

As for Lachrymology, you've got a band who is as you've said shrouded in mystery, and so many people are interested in them, so why not throw them a bone every once in a while? Like, Maynard puts jokes up on their websites sometimes. Like when Maynard said he had converted to Christianity, all Tool fans knew it was a joke. He's just keeping up the dialogue with his fans.

Rainard Jalen

Don't get me wrong, obviously it was their music above all that put them on the map. But subtle, creative marketing has been an important part of the Tool chronology, there is no doubting that for a moment.

Well that was kinda my point. Keeping people interested and excited is all part of good marketing. Maynard's a master of that kind of thing.

Miltamec Soundsquinaez

Yes, but IMO, that's to sustain their longevity, and preserve the purity of their art. We are celebrity obsessed society, but my feeling is that you won't see Maynard on Dancing With The Stars any time soon. He's definitely not Gene Simmons of Kiss. When a celebrity becomes over exposed, they become so saturated with self-importance, that they're no longer really good at what made them great in the first place. And shouldn't it be that way? Fans tend to look down on 'sellouts', because they have compromised themselves for the purpose of financial gain. You seem to be arguing that Tool are successful because of their subtle marketing, but I think they're successful in spite of it. I think Tool would have had the chance to make millions and millions more than they have at this point, but they have chosen to remain true to their art.


I'm not exactly sure what you mean by all this subtle marketing. I mean the members of the band seem to have held a collective belief system, which was that letting go of your pain, or crying, was the key to spiritual gain, and there wasn't really a term for that, so they themselves gave it a name-lachrymology. Other than that, I can't really think of too many examples, I mean, what do you want them to do, never make posts on their website, or communicate with their fans in any way?

Dr_Rez

That may be, but i don't think anyone can truly understand how another makes music. It is something so personal, and definitely not easily explained in some quick interview...

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babydef

In my opinion I like both. Yet I Have to be in a certain mood to listen to one or the other. Tool is more obscure in thier lyrics and APC is more of an anti- Government band. Both of them are Amazing, Maynard knows what he is doing

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Rainard Jalen

I take it that you realize Howerdel is almost certainly the main force behind the sound of APC, actually being a competent musician and a producer and all that... and that Tool's sound is owed largely to instrumentalists Carey, Jones and Chancellor and their talent for polyrhythmic interplay... Like, yeah, I'm really sick of every fan of these bands being f'cking obsessed with showering all the praise on Maynard as if he's some amazing one-of-a-kind one man mission. He isn't. He's not even a particularly good lyricist or vocalist.

cardboard adolescent

I think Maynard's probably the best "metal" lyricist I've ever come across. I've been rediscovering Tool recently, picking up more of the subtleties and layers of meaning. Tool are an excellent band to grow up with, probably the only important band I've grown up with.