History of Heavy Metal Thread

[Certif1ed]

As a quick summary in bullet points, from the very beginning;

1. We've charted a little of the metal attitudes back to the beginning of Rock and Roll, and seen how metal music grew from this energetic interpretation of the Blues, thanks to the sudden growth of the underground music scene in the mid 1960s.

2. We've tracked the accidental "discovery" of fuzz back to 1960, and noted that the overdriven sound came originally from the Bluesmen that predate Rock and Roll, although the fuzzed sound notably did not become widely used until 1965, when The Rolling Stones used it in "Satisfaction".

3. We've seen that Marshall Amplifiers and the almost simultaneous introduction of Gibson's Fuzz box, together with Gibson's legendary humbucker-driven guitars are pretty much what made the metal sound in 1965 - and that The Who were first with this combination.

4. We've seen the music grow from seeds planted as early as 1963 (the insistend rhythms and dark tones of Delia Derbyshire's "Dr Who" theme) - or possibly earlier in Horror films (we haven't really explored those yet), but the earliest song I could find that sounds distinctly like heavy metal is probably Steppenwolf's "Born To Be Wild" (1968), or arguably some of the material put out by Cream and Hendrix. I think that The Bluesbreakers, The Yardbirds, The Pretty Things and The Who were absolutely instrumental in bringing this music about, but I don't think that any of their stuff was "it", so we can't pin this date any earlier than 1967.

5. We've seen the name and the style grow from Spooky Tooth to Black Sabbath to Judas Priest, via Blues Rock, Space Rock and Glam Rock, but also seen that the style was only loosely related to Black Sabbath for well over a decade. In fact, Black Sabbath's revolutionary tritone-based riffs which are now a commonplace feature of metal were almost non-existent in all but the wildest of Prog Rock bands. We need to move into the late 1970s-early 1980s to see the rise of the tritone in metal and the emergence of the Modern Metal sound.

6. We can already see that metal is made up of a whole variety of sounds and surface styles, not to mention lyrical themes and technical playing ability, ranging from completely unable to play right across the board to uber-virtuoso. This rules out most generalisations you will ever read about Heavy Metal - despite the familiarity of its sound, it cannot easily be generalised. This diversity deserves an exploration which will probably hit several posts.

7. We can also see how musicians from other fields of music (I'll avoid the word "genres" simply because I hate the word!) have come into metal and brought aspects of those fields into metal - but metal doesn't flow the other way. Once you bring classical or jazz music into metal, it becomes part of metal, not the other way around. This is peculiar, because composers brought jazz into Classical, and it remained Classical (Debussy), and Classical into jazz (Gershwin) without altering the jazz nature. This would be a very interesting aspect to explore further.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Certif1ed

As a quick summary in bullet points, from the very beginning;

1. We've charted a little of the metal attitudes back to the beginning of Rock and Roll, and seen how metal music grew from this energetic interpretation of the Blues, thanks to the sudden growth of the underground music scene in the mid 1960s.

2. We've tracked the accidental "discovery" of fuzz back to 1960, and noted that the overdriven sound came originally from the Bluesmen that predate Rock and Roll, although the fuzzed sound notably did not become widely used until 1965, when The Rolling Stones used it in "Satisfaction".

3. We've seen that Marshall Amplifiers and the almost simultaneous introduction of Gibson's Fuzz box, together with Gibson's legendary humbucker-driven guitars are pretty much what made the metal sound in 1965 - and that The Who were first with this combination.

4. We've seen the music grow from seeds planted as early as 1963 (the insistend rhythms and dark tones of Delia Derbyshire's "Dr Who" theme) - or possibly earlier in Horror films (we haven't really explored those yet), but the earliest song I could find that sounds distinctly like heavy metal is probably Steppenwolf's "Born To Be Wild" (1968), or arguably some of the material put out by Cream and Hendrix. I think that The Bluesbreakers, The Yardbirds, The Pretty Things and The Who were absolutely instrumental in bringing this music about, but I don't think that any of their stuff was "it", so we can't pin this date any earlier than 1967.

5. We've seen the name and the style grow from Spooky Tooth to Black Sabbath to Judas Priest, via Blues Rock, Space Rock and Glam Rock, but also seen that the style was only loosely related to Black Sabbath for well over a decade. In fact, Black Sabbath's revolutionary tritone-based riffs which are now a commonplace feature of metal were almost non-existent in all but the wildest of Prog Rock bands. We need to move into the late 1970s-early 1980s to see the rise of the tritone in metal and the emergence of the Modern Metal sound.

6. We can already see that metal is made up of a whole variety of sounds and surface styles, not to mention lyrical themes and technical playing ability, ranging from completely unable to play right across the board to uber-virtuoso. This rules out most generalisations you will ever read about Heavy Metal - despite the familiarity of its sound, it cannot easily be generalised. This diversity deserves an exploration which will probably hit several posts.

7. We can also see how musicians from other fields of music (I'll avoid the word "genres" simply because I hate the word!) have come into metal and brought aspects of those fields into metal - but metal doesn't flow the other way. Once you bring classical or jazz music into metal, it becomes part of metal, not the other way around. This is peculiar, because composers brought jazz into Classical, and it remained Classical (Debussy), and Classical into jazz (Gershwin) without altering the jazz nature. This would be a very interesting aspect to explore further.

So we are more or less upto the emergence of Black Sabbath as a group that has taken on a large amount of some of the previous influences either knowingly or unknowingly.

I`ve still yet to listen to Spooky Tooth but will do this weekend.

As of yet, nobody has challenged your notion of Spooky Tooth as the first heavy metal outfit (I assume this is the notion that you are trying to put forward) So unless nobody challenges it, time to move forward.

I`m surprised Budgie hasn`t been mentioned as they are often regarded as a prime influence on the NWOBHM.

[Certif1ed]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

So we are more or less upto the emergence of Black Sabbath as a group that has taken on a large amount of some of the previous influences either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not attempting to make any kind of formulations, this is a purely exploratory exercise, as well as a good excuse to listen to great music, while thinking about where metal came from.

I haven't gone into a lot of detail about Sabbath, mainly because, up to 1979 their influence is relatively minor; You can hear it strongly in Judas Priest, which could be explained by the fact that both bands were from Birmingham, had the same producer, and Iommi's management company looked after Priest (and mysteriously saddled them with Gull records, instead of getting them signed to the much more reputable Vertigo!).

I'm trying to think of a band, let alone an early metal band that shows their influence, apart from some of their immediate contemporaries, like Vertigo stable mates May Blitz, who split up after their 2nd album.

Among the NWoBHM bands, there simply don't seem to be any - except Dio and Blizzard of Oz, for obvious reasons!


I'll dedicate a post to charting Sabbath's emergence and influences, and another to exploring their possible influence on other bands - but Iommi's riffing style remained unique for at least 10 years. There really was no-one like Sabbath!

It might be better to look at the other, less obvious bands first, and look at the bands that they influenced up to 1979.

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I`ve still yet to listen to Spooky Tooth but will do this weekend.

As of yet, nobody has challenged your notion of Spooky Tooth as the first heavy metal outfit (I assume this is the notion that you are trying to put forward) So unless nobody challenges it, time to move forward.

It's just something that seems to leap out as you listen to music from that time.

I'm not saying Spooky Tooth were first, just noting their creativity and direct influence on the style. I'm trying hard here not to form opinions or present opinionated nonsense - just factual nonsense...

What I did say in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way was that they were the first band to use the term "Heavy Metal" in the context of rock music, beating Steppenwolf, who are traditionally given that credit, by a whole year.

They also go back further than Art and Hapshash/Heavy Metal Kids, as far as 1964 and even earlier - so they're interesting from that point of view.

At the moment, there is a load of other stuff from the 1960s left to explore - and 1965-1970 is my favourite time in music, despite being too young to remember it.

I've only lightly touched on the use of fuzz, and exposed metals absolute roots in blues/rock and roll and psychedelia (no surprises, since most rock styles are rooted in psyche) - and the more surprising area of surf/garage, and plan to go into that in a bit more depth, as no metal history I'm aware of even considers that influence.

There's more, of course - Glam Rock didn't start in the 1970s, it started in the 60s, and it's a huge factor that most people gloss over.

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I`m surprised Budgie hasn`t been mentioned as they are often regarded as a prime influence on the NWOBHM.

I will definitely explore Budgie, but they're a 1970s band, and there are loads of those who had an impact on modern metal. I remain unconvinced that they were a "prime influence" on the NWoBHM, but they were obviously an influence on Metallica, like so many others. There is the interesting link with Sabbath and Priest that Rodger Bain also produced Budgie's debut.

That's the point of this thread really, to discover who the real influences and influencees were, and look at solid links in the chain (rather than vague claims of being influenced by so-and-so) - as well as to check out some excellent music - even if it only confirms what you already know.

As I said above, I'm trying to present this in an exploratory, non opinionated way, and I'm bound to miss something - so these inputs are really useful.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Certif1ed

I'm not attempting to make any kind of formulations, this is a purely exploratory exercise, as well as a good excuse to listen to great music, while thinking about where metal came from.

I haven't gone into a lot of detail about Sabbath, mainly because, up to 1979 their influence is relatively minor; You can hear it strongly in Judas Priest, which could be explained by the fact that both bands were from Birmingham, had the same producer, and Iommi's management company looked after Priest (and mysteriously saddled them with Gull records, instead of getting them signed to the much more reputable Vertigo!).

I'm trying to think of a band, let alone an early metal band that shows their influence, apart from some of their immediate contemporaries, like Vertigo stable mates May Blitz, who split up after their 2nd album.

Among the NWoBHM bands, there simply don't seem to be any - except Dio and Blizzard of Oz, for obvious reasons!


I'll dedicate a post to charting Sabbath's emergence and influences, and another to exploring their possible influence on other bands - but Iommi's riffing style remained unique for at least 10 years. There really was no-one like Sabbath!

It might be better to look at the other, less obvious bands first, and look at the bands that they influenced up to 1979.



It's just something that seems to leap out as you listen to music from that time.

I'm not saying Spooky Tooth were first, just noting their creativity and direct influence on the style. I'm trying hard here not to form opinions or present opinionated nonsense - just factual nonsense...

What I did say in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way was that they were the first band to use the term "Heavy Metal" in the context of rock music, beating Steppenwolf, who are traditionally given that credit, by a whole year.

They also go back further than Art and Hapshash/Heavy Metal Kids, as far as 1964 and even earlier - so they're interesting from that point of view.

At the moment, there is a load of other stuff from the 1960s left to explore - and 1965-1970 is my favourite time in music, despite being too young to remember it.

I've only lightly touched on the use of fuzz, and exposed metals absolute roots in blues/rock and roll and psychedelia (no surprises, since most rock styles are rooted in psyche) - and the more surprising area of surf/garage, and plan to go into that in a bit more depth, as no metal history I'm aware of even considers that influence.

There's more, of course - Glam Rock didn't start in the 1970s, it started in the 60s, and it's a huge factor that most people gloss over.



I will definitely explore Budgie, but they're a 1970s band, and there are loads of those who had an impact on modern metal. I remain unconvinced that they were a "prime influence" on the NWoBHM, but they were obviously an influence on Metallica, like so many others. There is the interesting link with Sabbath and Priest that Rodger Bain also produced Budgie's debut.

That's the point of this thread really, to discover who the real influences and influencees were, and look at solid links in the chain (rather than vague claims of being influenced by so-and-so) - as well as to check out some excellent music - even if it only confirms what you already know.

As I said above, I'm trying to present this in an exploratory, non opinionated way, and I'm bound to miss something - so these inputs are really useful.

I think exploration is vital to all types of things but at some stage its usually useful to have a direct reference point and probably Judas Priest are the most obvious for sound, image and impact on the general public whereas most HM groups will probably quote Black Sabbath as their primary inspiration (with caution)

It`s kind of like Hard Rock, most bands were influenced by Zeppelin and Aerosmith but we both know that the influences started long before that.

[Certif1ed]

Of course it's useful to have reference points, and I've used Sabbath and Priest as the main kicking off points along with Maiden.

You say "most HM groups will probably quote Sabbath as their primary inspiration". This is not the approach I'm trying to take here - it's a speculative guess, and that's not what I'm trying to do here.

If I was to sepculate, I would wonder how much of that is true about the NWoBHM bands, many of whom were probably equally influenced by other bands, such as Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix and other proto metal bands.


Factually, but unsatisfyingly generally, the NWoBHM was a time of immense importance in the development of the metal sound we have now, and at the time that was Heavy Metal - and it's still called that, even though it sounds very different to Metal today.

The NWoBHM is very interesting because of the crossover between "Hard" or "Heavy" Rock and Metal. There was no actual borderline, yet there were distinct differences.

Sabbath and Priest were just part of the landscape of the NWoBHM along with fellow old-timers Motorhead, UFO, Rainbow, Whitesnake, Thin Lizzy et al - and all those bands trod the border between metal and hard rock.

The huge numbers of new bands and styles that sprang up during the NWoBHM had very little do do with Sabbath or their style, and plenty to do with the other "Old Wave" bands, but it was notable that the highly talented Diamond Head were cited as "The New Led Zeppelin", and would have drifted into obscurity without Metallica, and it ended up that the mostly talentless Venom were the most influential of all the NW bands after Maiden.

The NWoBHM gave rise to Metallica, who are mostly responsible for the sound and style of a large number of modern metal bands. Metallica cite many, many fairly diverse bands as influences, but certainly, Sabbath's tritonic approach and drop-tuning are notable in their overall style until Load.

You've reminded me that I've mostly confined my explorations to British bands... to be rectified

[Automatic Slim]

Certif1ed said:

"Cirith Ungol are an incredibly underrated metal band - Fire and Ice is a lost classic, IMHO. I'll have to track down King of the Dead, as I don't know it."

I continue to read this thread with interest. Yes, Cirith Ungol did a cover of Bach's Toccata. They are a very underrated band.

This talk of medieval things reminds me that I need to investigate some 'medieval metal': Corvus Corax, Subway to Sally, etc. Olden times have provided metal with quite a bit of imagery: plagues, crusades, castles, witchcraft, devils, knights, momento mori, etc. I'd bet some of those old monks could have created some great metal if given the opportunity! And what is doomier than Gregorian chants, gothic cathedrals, and old churchyards?

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Certif1ed

Factually, but unsatisfyingly generally, the NWoBHM was a time of immense importance in the development of the metal sound we have now, and at the time that was Heavy Metal - and it's still called that, even though it sounds very different to Metal today.

The NWoBHM is very interesting because of the crossover between "Hard" or "Heavy" Rock and Metal. There was no actual borderline, yet there were distinct differences.

Sabbath and Priest were just part of the landscape of the NWoBHM along with fellow old-timers Motorhead, UFO, Rainbow, Whitesnake, Thin Lizzy et al - and all those bands trod the border between metal and hard rock.

In the mid to late seventies as you say there was certainly a very thin line between HM and HR if any at all. With the exception of Motorhead all of the above were in many ways more hard rock oufits who long before the eighties arrived were bringing radio friendlly hard rock sounds to listeners along with keeping their core hard rock fans company. When looking at entries on these groups 90% of the time they willl have a hard rock and heavy metal entry next to them also add in the earlier Uriah Heep along with the Scorpions and you kind of have the principal groups 70`s hard rock,that at times were labelled heavy metal and certainly influenced nearly all the HM that would later follow.

Another point of note is the vocal delivery of singers at the time that ranged from shrieking, whaling and moaning for example Ozzy Osbourne, Ian Gillan and Robert Plant to the much cleaner delivery exampled by Dave Byron, Phil Lynott or Dio. For this reason Rob Halford is probably the best reference point for HM singers as he was neither of any of the above and fitted somewhere in between with his powerful and high speed vocal delivery. I don`t think it was until hardcore punk that we were really introduced to singers that you actually couldn`t understand a word they were singing about (maybe excepting AC/DC or Motorhead here but that`s very subjective) a style that would later go on and influence various thrash anddeath metal groups

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Certif1ed

The huge numbers of new bands and styles that sprang up during the NWoBHM had very little do do with Sabbath or their style, and plenty to do with the other "Old Wave" bands, but it was notable that the highly talented Diamond Head were cited as "The New Led Zeppelin", and would have drifted into obscurity without Metallica, and it ended up that the mostly talentless Venom were the most influential of all the NW bands after Maiden.

I think Diamond Head are a good reference point here and in many ways were quite distinct to the rest of the NWOBHM outfits and certainly had an ability that many of their contemporaries didn`t, I think the new Led Zeppelin tag is in some ways correct but I think that has much to do with their third album Canterbury which like Led`s third was a change of direction.

I think the influence that they had on Metallica is also quite strange in many ways. Metallica the first wave of thrash metal who like most of the thrash bands were performing with a heavy dosage of speed, agression and shouted or growled lyrics whereas Diamond Head were really just the opposite of all this, great medium paced Heavy metal or hard rock!!! (again debatable as to what they were) songs with plenty of melody, interesting changes in sound and easy to distinguish lyrics basically a rock sound that was enjoyable to most that were exposed to it, very much like Zeppelin from that perspective. In fact the only song of theirs that hints of any real agression is "Am I Evil?" probably the DH song most played by Metallica.

[Certif1ed]

Originally Posted by Automatic Slim

Olden times have provided metal with quite a bit of imagery: plagues, crusades, castles, witchcraft, devils, knights, momento mori, etc. I'd bet some of those old monks could have created some great metal if given the opportunity! And what is doomier than Gregorian chants, gothic cathedrals, and old churchyards?

This is a good thread to follow - and there's stuff like this from the 1960s that's well worth digging into, like the Jason Crest song below, which is not Metal, obviously, but damned freaky - a kind of horror version of "Tomorrow Never Knows";

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

When looking at entries on these groups 90% of the time they willl have a hard rock and heavy metal entry next to them also add in the earlier Uriah Heep along with the Scorpions and you kind of have the principal groups 70`s hard rock,that at times were labelled heavy metal and certainly influenced nearly all the HM that would later follow.

I can't stand "labels" or "genres" - I'm trying to focus on reality as far as humanly possible.

As far as I can hear, both the Scorpions and Uriah Heep played some heavy metal, some ballads and some Prog Rock - and the Scorps played some Space rock.

Neither band fits a single category because their musical output was so varied - but certain things about the Scorpions, particularly the riffs and lead guitar playing, and particularly the style of Michael Schenker is fundamental to the NWoBHM style - more so than Black Sabbath.

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Another point of note is the vocal delivery of singers

Aye - I've only concentrated on guitar sound so far - there's a lot to consider with the various vocal styles.

Drummers and bassists too - and the notable absence of keyboards or instruments other than guitar from "traditional" heavy metal, or their role when they do crop up is another complete topic.

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

...I think the new Led Zeppelin tag is in some ways correct but I think that has much to do with their third album Canterbury which like Led`s third was a change of direction.

The Led Zep reference is not my own, it was in Sounds back in 1979, at a time when most of us hadn't even heard Diamond Head (their first LP was limited to 1,000 copies, so this isn't surprising!).

Obviously, this was significantly before Canterbury - and I can hear how it might apply to "Living on Borrowed Time", which in itself is a massive toning down and bluesing up from "Lightning to the Nations" (not the reissue that most people know, but the original limited pressing).

The original "LTTN" (The "White" album - it's telling that it's acquired such a prestigious nickname!) contains gems like "Helpless" and "The Prince" - both of which Metallica covered, and both of which are thrash metal before its "invention".

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I think the influence that they had on Metallica is also quite strange in many ways. Metallica the first wave of Thrash metal who like most of the trash bands were performing with a heavy dosage of speed, agression and shouted or growled lyrics whereas Diamond Head were really just the opposite of all this, great medium paced Heavy metal or hard rock!!! (again debatable as to what they were) songs with plenty of melody, interesting changes in sound and easy to distinguish lyrics basically a rock sound that was enjoyable to most that were exposed to it, very much like Zeppelin from that perspective. In fact the only song of theirs that hints of any real agression is "Am I Evil?" probably the DH song most played by Metallica.

Not at all - "Helpless" and "The Prince" are both faster (actual thrash) and far more aggressive than "Am I Evil".




If you can, track down a copy of Lightning To The Nations (the original "White Album" version - I think it's been re-issued). It's the original side of Diamond Head that were the most direct influence on Metallica of any band.

Canterbury is an amazing album in many ways - the 50% that isn't radio friendly stuff is really cool and inventive.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Certif1ed

The Led Zep reference is not my own, it was in Sounds back in 1979, at a time when most of us hadn't even heard Diamond Head (their first LP was limited to 1,000 copies, so this isn't surprising!).

Obviously, this was significantly before Canterbury - and I can hear how it might apply to "Living on Borrowed Time", which in itself is a massive toning down and bluesing up from "Lightning to the Nations" (not the reissue that most people know, but the original limited pressing).

The original "LTTN" (The "White" album - it's telling that it's acquired such a prestigious nickname!) contains gems like "Helpless" and "The Prince" - both of which Metallica covered, and both of which are thrash metal before its "invention".

Canterbury is an amazing album in many ways - the 50% that isn't radio friendly stuff is really cool and inventive.

I know Diamond Head`s history quite well and to be fair its quite laughable that so many misfortunes struck the band and denied them the success they really warrented.

Canterbury is an album that I really like as well.