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View Poll Results: Tony Iommi or Jimmy Page?
Tony Iommi 50 41.67%
Jimmy Page 70 58.33%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-01-2016, 01:24 PM   #341 (permalink)
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Because in the grand scheme of things, it's all based on how you perceive those facts into your own opinion. There are facts that you have to follow to be a good/great guitar player i.e. guitar lessons, perfecting your craft, etc. Many guitarists are above the caliber that Jimmy Page sits at. Not everybody is going to see the facts the same way when it comes to playing guitar, because everyone has a different perspective of what they believe is considered a good or bad guitar player.
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Some of my favourite guitarists sound like they've never played a guitar before in their life to the untrained ear.
What you're describing is standardization, and that doesn't mean much in the way of whether or not it's a good system to be based off of. The lessons bit is a bit of a strawman, because if I started teaching kids how to play prepared guitar, which I'm excellent at and have a very deep understanding of what can make a great prepared guitar player, their parents would fire me because their kid didn't learn how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb.

So what you're calling facts in this post...are opinions.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:24 PM   #342 (permalink)
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What part of the word different do you not understand?
Different takes.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:27 PM   #343 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
What you're describing is standardization, and that doesn't mean much in the way of whether or not it's a good system to be based off of. The lessons bit is a bit of a strawman, because if I started teaching kids how to play prepared guitar, which I'm excellent at and have a very deep understanding of what can make a great prepared guitar player, their parents would fire me because their kid didn't learn how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb.

So what you're calling facts in this post...are opinions.
Elliott Sharp taught prepared guitar techniques to some students, by the way (a good friend of mine was one of those students), but yeah, not to little kids. (Re Elliott Sharp, I'm pretty sure we talked about that a long time ago--shortly after I first joined the site, I think. I wound up telling you a couple people I'd played with, which I usually don't do online.)
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:27 PM   #344 (permalink)
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There are facts that you have to follow to be a good/great guitar player i.e. guitar lessons, perfecting your craft, etc. Many guitarists are above the caliber that Jimmy Page sits at.
I never took a lesson in my life. When you say there are many guitarist above the caliber of Jimmy Page what are you basing that on.

Are far as rock guitar goes for that era there were few above his caliber. Blackmore was for sure. In some ways Trower was but he was just copping Hendrix licks for the most part.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:29 PM   #345 (permalink)
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I never took a lesson in my life. When you say there are many guitarist above the caliber of Jimmy Page what are you basing that on.
I've never taken lessons either, but the factual evidence comes in the form of what makes a guitar, the way you write the songs that you want to play, etc.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:30 PM   #346 (permalink)
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Jane, you ignorant slut.

The bad rap that Page gets is based off of mostly shows during the 75 and 77 tours where he was getting too wasted and as a result, sloppy.

His playing on the albums is both technical and brilliant for that genre. Have you ever sat down and tried to learn solos like Achilles Last Stand, Since I've been Loving You, Black Dog, and yes, even Stairway to Heaven? His note choices, the subtle little ways he accents his bends, his vibrato, and how the melody perfectly fits the song is much harder to replicate that you think.

Back then I could play Sabbath, Aerosmith, Nugent, UFO, ZZ Top, etc. well before I was able to accurately pull off Page.

And the vast majority of his live playing is ridiculously good. Ever listened to How The West Was Won? The solo on this is killer!

I can vouch for that album.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:31 PM   #347 (permalink)
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Different takes.
No. It was three different solos altogether. The engineer lamented later that he didn't keep a master of the other two because they were both quite different from the one on the album.

So what we're all familiar with was done in one take.

David Gilmour on the other hand would record a dozen or more different solos and then cut and paste the best parts from each together. He'd then record that as the final version.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:32 PM   #348 (permalink)
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No. It was three different solos altogether. The engineer lamented later that he didn't keep a master of the other two because they were both quite different from the one on the album.

So what we're all familiar with was done in one take.

David Gilmour on the other hand would record a dozen or more different solos and then cut and paste the best parts from each together. He'd then record that as the final version.
The use of the word take is misleading.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:32 PM   #349 (permalink)
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I've never taken lessons either
No need to state the obvious.

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but the factual evidence comes in the form of what makes a guitar, the way you write the songs that you want to play, etc.
What in Gods name does this mean?
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:33 PM   #350 (permalink)
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Elliott Sharp taught prepared guitar techniques to some students, by the way (a good friend of mine was one of those students), but yeah, not to little kids. (Re Elliott Sharp, I'm pretty sure we talked about that a long time ago--shortly after I first joined the site, I think. I wound up telling you a couple people I'd played with, which I usually don't do online.)
You mentioned Derek Bailey too, right? I remember that.

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I never took a lesson in my life. When you say there are many guitarist above the caliber of Jimmy Page what are you basing that on.
Joe Pass, Robert Fripp, Fred Frith, Marc Ribot, John Fahey, Sir Richard Bishop, Nels Cline, Zappa, Arto Lindsay, Mary Halvorson, Richard Dawson, Kawabata Makoto, Bill Frisell...shall I go on?
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