oh cmon, eli's teams didn't carry him??? giants have had one of the most dominant pass rushes for years. he is one incredibly lucky catch (tyree helmet catch) and one dynamite throw (that pass down the sideline between the cb and safety to manningham i think) from zero super bowls. my point is that it's an incredibly thin line that seperates super bowl QBs and non super bowl qbs. If denvers safety is competent, ravens dont even get to the superbowl!! a degree of luck is certianly required. i dont think theres really much difference between flacco, eli and schaub.

does anyone really think eli is better than peyton cause of more rings?? i just hate using rings in any sport but especially football as an indicator of greatness.


matt ryan only has 1 playoff win but i think hes probably the 4th best qb in the game right now. falcons just signed him to a huge deal as they should have

@216 - Interceptions matter. These guys avoided them when they needed them.

Peyton is far superior, but Schaub > these guys? cmon man.

man im not sayin that, i just said there isnt that big of a difference between them. eli, flacco, and schaub are all in the 6-10 qb rankings. before last year was flacco really regarded as better than schaub?? not by much. he had a great playoffs i agree, but i dont think the texans winning a SB is that far-fetched by any means. qbs in the playoffs are good/bad year to year, it just has to do with matchups they end up in.


just in sports in general i dont like the idea tha tonly championships matter. im not willing to all but dismiss amazing years because someone didnt win the superbowl. especially in football i dont consider rings to be a good indicator when ranking qbs. cmon man is dan marino a great qb?? jim kelly????

plus texans won their first playoff game last year vs Cinci and lost to the patriots. theres no shame in losing to the pats. patriots put up 41 on houston, thats not on schaub. i think the year before he didnt even play in the playoffs, wasnt it that yates guy??? im not real sure but i think it was.

I'm not judging Schaub based on his playoff performance really. I think that offense would be amazing with a good QB. You've had the best running game in the league for years.

yea but you are judging him on something by saying hes not a good qb. im NOT a texans fan but i just disagree with that. i think schaub is a better fantasy qb than a real life qb lol but hes still 'good' and id put him in the top half of qbs for sure. houston has a great run game but i think thats more due to the fact that they are one of the few teams who consciously make it a point to pound the rock. hardly anyone else does that anymore. theres only maybe a little more than 5 qbs who would put up better numbers in houstons offense

I'm confused.

A good QB would have that offense top 10 every year. Their O line is amazing at run blocking and otherwise their personnel is good.

after the top few qbs its a complete clusterfukk in rankings

brady, manning, brees, rodgers are in a category of their own


then i put matt ryan below them (maybe unpopular opinin but i have a bias ;) )

then the others like eli, flacco, romo, rg3, wilson, schaub, etc


either way, they ARE a top 10 offense. they were last year in yds/game and points per game. the year before they were a top 10 scoring offense and that was when schaub got hurt in week 10 too i believe. In 2010 they were 3rd in total offense and 9th in scoring (with 2 teams only .2 points per game ahead of them)

plus if you remember before last yr, texand and falcons were two trendy superbowl picks

Sure they were, but we are talking about Schaub. I listed my QB ranking somewhere in this thread in the last year, lets se.e..

http://www.musicbanter.com/sport-rec...ml#post1242041

ok well you said he wasnt a good qb. and that a good qb would have them as a top 10 offense.....schaub DOES have them as a top 10 offense the last 3 seasons

pretty agreeable rankings but i am shocked you have rapelisberger in the elite category

I'm not much of Big Ben fan but dude can ball in the playoffs. I'm prone to agree with you on Schaub, I think hes certainly a top ten guy in the league. He just needs to turn the corner in the playoffs. He looked like ball sack against New England last year, sure their defense was horrible, but they were on the field the entire game cause Schaub couldn't move the ball. I think they're ready to make a good run, but I wouldn't put my money on them going to the SB.

i live in pitt and i think many ppl would be shocked about fans feelins towards big ben. i dont think any player in the league gets such a wide range or reactions from his own fan base.

big ben is a good qb, kinda hard to judge because of his play style. he can either hit a homerun or strike out because he holds the ball so damn long. i would put him in the top 10 or 15 but eric has him in the same breath as rodgers, brady etc and thats is crazy

AHHHHHHHHHHH ESPN America is GONE in Turkey as of August 1!!!!!!!! Wtf am I gonna do all season?!?! I'm paying like $15 extra for the sports package but now I'm down to just Fox Sports, which only sometimes airs Green Bay games. AHHH I hate everything right now.

Buy gamepass from NFL.com. You can watch every single game 24 hours after it finishes. You'll be behind a day but you can still watch.

Nope. Live or bust, bro! I'll probably end up streaming them online. Just venting my frustration with Turkey (and/or ESPN) being lame in general.

The worst is that we have a huge TV with awesome definition and it was so fun to be able to invite people over for games and stuff. So uncool to watch on my weak little netbook. I'm hoping that there will be a replacement channel for the missing ESPN HD I loved so much..

Who is your team misspoptart?

Why is Turkey getting rid of it?

Actually, it's a Europe-wide situation. As far as I understand, ESPN America was recently purchased by a company in the UK that no longer wants to air the content in 30 countries in and around Europe. Some, like Germany, have simply bought rights to other similar channels. I'm hoping that is what happens in Turkey, too.

I'm a die hard Green Bay fan, DJ, I have been since I was a little kid. I got it from my dad. :) And I had suuuuch a crush on Dorsey Levens for most (all) of my childhood.

Also my grandfather was a college coach. He's a Cowboys fan. Up in Maine, we don't really affiliate with the Patriots, so everyone sort of just picks who they like. My uncle is a Steelers fan and my mom is a Browns fan, to give you an idea. :)

I would clash with your uncle so badly. I hate the Steelers!!!!

I'm a Niners fan with Bills as my backup team that I look out for. Never been a Jets or Giants fan.

Backup team? :rofl: C'mon DJ, pick a team already.

I just like to follow the Bills okay!

Niners is my team though.

Damn straight

The wound the 49ers inflicted on us last post-season is still fresh. REVENGE!!

At least you're not an Atlanta fan.

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_as...dard_783.0.gif

anyone got any stream sites??

Well this could be a fun thread to jump into. I am an avid football fan. It has been an interesting start to the season, so I am excited to see where it goes :)

we need more football fans :beer: who is your team? round here the vikings are well respresented, we got a niners fan, a falcons fan, im not sure what else


my falcons won this week. typical falcons fan, i was watchin football with my friends all day and predicted what would happen.

-atlanta gets huge lead
-allows inferior team to come back and almost win by playin conservative
-mike smith terrible at halftime adustments
-atlanta stoll holds onto the win because matt ryan is awesome


happens every single week


broncos clearly lookin like the class of the afc right now and its not close.

exciting week 3 matchup. andry reid and the chiefs go to philly.

Personally I am a Texans, Pats and Niners fan...and of course fan of any team that is play against the Cowboys! ;) Yeah I am a Texan and live in Houston, so that is where that little dig comes from.

Broncos are something else, I think they are the team to beat in the AFC. They can easily take the division with Manning leading and Welker as well as his other targets. I think this will be a good season though, I am excited!

people kinda forget that the broncos should have been in he superbowl last year if not for a very terrible play by their safety in the afc title game. another reason superbowls are completely over rated when comparing players or ranking them for fun. peyton is the best qb there is, no question in my opinion

i also hate the cowboys because i hate jerry jones and although he always ends up on my fantasy team, i hate romo. they are just a completely dysfunctional franchise and i love it

I do know what you mean, I know that post season and super bowls don't really measure greatness. Last Super Bowl was quite crazy! Peyton without a doubt is good and will go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game.

Yeah I have my issues with Cowboys and Romo. I am not sure I would ever want him on my fantasy, but my QB places didn't get the best players this year anyway...but hopefully I can make a good run as the season progresses. I am 1-1 in my fantasy, and I won this past week, so I can't really complain. :)

Peyton is already the greatest quarterback of all time. He needed that super bowl so all of the snobs that think you need to win at least one could relax, but even with his playoff resume he just is so much better than any other quarterback that I can think of.

He's been more dominant in a league that's radically improved even since the days of Joe Montana. I know Pats fans will push Tom Brady, but realistically he isn't even on the same level, he's the next level down with Brees and Rodgers. Really wasn't the perennial MVP candidate or even a 4,000 yard passer until he started getting the most jacked up receiving corps this league's ever seen.

Anyways, I'd be shocked if the Broncos didn't win it all this year. Could see them running the table, actually.

I dunno, I don't think you can just push Peyton's playoff performances off to the side. I don't really know a good alternative for best QB as Peyton is so much better than anyone in the regular season, but it seems kind of wrong to say the best QB of all time is so much worse when the games really matter.

As for Brady, he's had to really adjust his game over the years. He didn't really have much to throw to before he got Welker and Moss in '07, yet he still put up great stats and won 3 Superbowls in that time. He only got to play a couple years with that stacked receiving core and then completely changed his game up to accommodate those losses by having to relying on a slot receiver and two tight ends.

The talent that Manning has had to throw to is waaaaay better than what Brady had to work with. And not only was his receiving core better, but it was as stable as you can get. One of the best receivers in the league in Marvin Harrison to throw to for a decade, one of the most underrated receivers of this era in Wayne to throw to for a decade as well, one of the better pass-catching tight ends in Dallas Clark for close to a decade, and one of the most reliable slot receivers in Stokley for 4 years. You simply are not going to find a better receiving core than that that stayed together for such a long time. When you add in the fact that his O-line and especially center stayed the same for Peyton's entire career in Indy, that's a pretty ideal situation to be in.

Even looking at what Peyton has to work with in Denver, it's very similar. He now has 3 receivers to work with that looks nearly identical to what he had in Indy.

Games always matter. Regular season wins equate to a shot at the playoffs. Shouldn't Ben Roethlisberger be in the discussion for greatest QB of all time if success in the playoffs is counted?

IMO, being the best means that you're just better than everyone else. Peyton Manning has always been better than Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, etc. and if he wins this year, he'll be closing the gap on the only good talking point for the argument that Brady's a better quarterback. It sounds kind of silly that he actually has to win 2 more super bowls before he can even be in the discussion. Also silly that Dan Marino is never mentioned as a possible greatest quarterback of all time, despite having held almost every significant passing record for several years. Brett Favre too.

Tom Brady was more like Ben Roethlisberger until the Patriots started to move more towards the pass, Peyton Manning has always been like Peyton Manning, regardless of who his receivers have been. Even without Stokley and Harrison, Manning put up the same stats. Can the same be said for in reverse for Brandon Stokley, who signed a huge contract and then did nothing? Absolutely not.

I don't think any of them would have done anything without Peyton Manning, and I don't think Tom Brady would have ever won an MVP without an elite receiving corps. He wasn't even in the same league as Peyton Manning when he won his Super Bowls tbh.

brady won mvp in 2010 without an elite receiving corps. welker was nothing before brady. the difference is that belichek and brady are truly masterminds on the same page. they are more innovative and creative than anyone else and the rest of the league is always playing catch up to them. it looks simple to brady.

i do think peyton is better, and the best ever, but the elite masterclass of qbs for me is manning, montana, brady, favre, in no order. brady deserves the recognition, hes earned it with his resume and consistent greatness.

Better than Brady? That is crazy talk. I understand not putting coplete stock in rings but dude.......Brady has way more and is possibly the most clutch qb in the history of football.

This comment will russel some jimmies but I would say he is in the running for best qb ever. If he can get another superbowl (he will this year) then its his title.

His receiving corps in 2010 was the same as it was for the last 2 years. Hernandez, Gronkowski and Welker is an elite receiving corps.

Manning's better than him, and always has been.

Brady takes so much credit for NE winning those titles that people forget "he" hasn't won one in almost 10 years.

Manning is the greatest quarterback of all time, and if he wins it this year he will be only one behind Brady, and with most of the all-time passing records on top of that. I can't imagine what Brady's argument will be like at that point, especially considering that he's becoming more known for losing in the playoffs just like Peyton was for all those years.

Edit:

I didn't realize it, but I was curious so I looked. Peyton Manning has a higher passer rating than Tom Brady in the postseason, and their other stats are nearly identical with Brady's being slightly better due to playing in more postseason games. Go figure.

Tom Brady Records:
Most touchdown passes (Single season NFL record)
Highest playoff win total
Longest consecutive win streak (NFL record)

Manning and Brady Pass completion is almost identical percentage. (Brady passer rating is higher however)

And Brady in 11 seasons has been in 5 superbowls. Manning...2, in more seasons. Bradys team is completely different now and they still dominate, lol at thinking Brady isnt the reason they are so good.

its splitting hairs really, i mean i just said brady has earned and deserves to be recognized among the best handful of all time. i dont think peyton had the defense brady had when the pats teams were dominant with bruschi. i love brady but love manning more. i think brady along with belichik are the best pre-game gameplanners ive ever seen and manning is the best pre-play gameplanner ive ever seen

i dont understand how you can dismiss stokley as nothin without peyton, but consider welker elite when he was headed for a career of mediocrity before brady made him a star. do hernandez and gronk have the same stats with any other team in the league?? not even close. its part brady and part belichek but drafting a couple rookie tight ends and getting a middlign undersized receiver is nowhere near elite