The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

No.... But I'm not trying to argue for a capitalist
utopia.

And it's more than just not utopian. It's not useful in any way to pontificate on why and how the soviet union grew so fast while intentionally ignoring the victims it robbed to do so.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

No.... But I'm not trying to argue for a capitalist
utopia.

And it's more than just not utopian. It's not useful in any way to pontificate on why and how the soviet union grew so fast while intentionally ignoring the victims it robbed to do so.

Don't you do the same thing when you try to get people to admit that capitalism has done good things?

@ bat

No cause globally it has done certain things to increase the standard of living. The soviet model of rapid industrialization did nothing fundamentally different other than direct all their productive capacity towards the aims of the state. It was a sound strategy, militarily. Economically less so. Millions had to die in sacrifice.

Where as capitalism had down sides, and I believe is unsustainable long term, but the industrial model is driving down the price of goods so that a higher general quality of life is possible on a worldwide scale.

It goes hand and hands with technological innovation though so it's not like capitalism as such is soley responsible for the quality of life. It's mainly responsible for stream lining the process of manufacturing and assembly.

Originally Posted by elphenor

or rather, the simple fact that it's not the "free market" that creates growth

no, it's stealing food from peasants and then selling that food on the global market to buy industrial machinery.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

@ bat

No cause globally it has some certain things to increase the standard of living. The soviet model of rapid industrialization did nothing fundamentally different other than direct all their productive capacity towards the aims of the state. It was around strategy, militarily. Economically less so. Millions had to die in sacrifice.

Where as capitalism had down sides and I believe is unsustainable long term, but the industrial model is driving down the price of goods so that a higher general quality of life is possible on a worldwide scale. It goes hand and hands with technological innovation though so it's not like capitalism as such is soley responsible for the quality of life. It's mainly responsible for stream lining the process of manufacturing and assembly.

But aren't you also "inviting" us to not think about Gilded Age worker exploitation, kids mining cobalt in the Congo for our cellphones, and just imperialism in general?

Inviting you? I don't understand your question.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by elphenor

lol

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

Inviting you? I don't understand your question.

You accused elph of using that video you two are arguing about as a sneaky way of promoting the Soviet Union because it only talks about the ways in which the Soviet economy worked. I'm accusing you of hypocrisy because you do a similar thing with capitalism.

[The Batlord]

I'm not really in this argument in general tbh. I'm just bored and pickin' at you.

Originally Posted by elphenor

lol

as opposed to stealing other countries peasants food

or maybe simply enslaving them

you keep deflecting with that but that's literally all the soviets did differently. They decided to buy machines instead of let their people eat. It's not like I'm arguing in favor of capitalism or saying that America didn't use conquest and slavery to benefit our position. But when we industrialized didn't have 10-30 million people die in an artificially produced famine. So when you point to the soviet union or China and maybe they're doing something better than us cause they're growing faster... Without bringing up those deaths... Yea that's propaganda.