Children killed in Connecticut school shooting (likely 27 dead,including 18 children)

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

That's also how the US is though so it doesn't prove your point at all. Also, I believe immigrants here are less likely than other citizens to commit crimes here, not more.

So you don't think that the majority of crimes are economically motivated?

TheBig3 · 12-26-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

So you don't think that the majority of crimes are economically motivated?

Isn't economics a little broad to make a statement like that? Tell me which crime isn't the result of a need for self-preservation.

**Janszoon** · 12-26-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

So you don't think that the majority of crimes are economically motivated?

Er... what? How does that question have anything to do with what I just said?

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Er... what? How does that question have anything to do with what I just said?

Everything, the point I've been making is that restrictive immigration (fulfilling a criteria) leads to their better integration into the society that they're moving to. As new immigrants are usually at the bottom end of the economic ladder when they move, they are more prone to be involved in crimes than more established immigrants. Which is why I asked you, if you think most crimes are economically motivated or not.

**Janszoon** · 12-26-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Everything, the point I've been making is that restrictive immigration (fulfilling a criteria) leads to their better integration into the society that they're moving to. As new immigrants are usually at the bottom end of the economic ladder when they move, they are more prone to be involved in crimes than more established immigrants. Which is why I asked you, if you think most crimes are economically motivated or not.

I have no idea if most crimes are economically motived or not. I'd imagine some are and some aren't. The one this thread is about certainly wasn't.

But none of this has anything to do with immigration because, as I stated previously, immigrants to the US don't commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants.

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I have no idea if most crimes are economically motived or not. I'd imagine some are and some aren't. The one this thread is about certainly wasn't.

I certainly think most are. But the one in this thread wasn't.

Quote:

But none of this has anything to do with immigration because, as I stated previously, immigrants to the US don't commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants.

If certain non-immigrants and certain immigrants are at the bottom end of the economic scale, then that is where most crimes will be committed from. As I believe most immigrants are more likely through no fault of their own, to be at this bottom end, the liklihood of them committing a crime is higher than somebody more established in society. But if you don't believe that crimes are economically motivated then we'll have to agree to disagree.

For the record, i'm actually a very strong advocate of immigration and believe people should always have freedom of movement to improve their lives and try and go wherever they want, but it does come with initial growing pains!

Burning Down · 12-26-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I have no idea if most crimes are economically motived or not. I'd imagine some are and some aren't. The one this thread is about certainly wasn't.

But none of this has anything to do with immigration because, as I stated previously, immigrants to the US don't commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants.

It's the same here. We have more criminals born and raised in Canada than ones who weren't. All the cold blooded serial killers and rapists that are in federal prison are Canadian. It's rare to hear about an immigrant committing even petty crimes.

TheBig3 · 12-26-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

It's the same here. We have more criminals born and raised in Canada than ones who weren't. All the cold blooded serial killers and rapists that are in federal prison are Canadian. It's rare to hear about an immigrant committing even petty crimes.

HHBH is the worlds most successful troll, I swear to god.

Unknown Soldier · 12-26-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

It's the same here. We have more criminals born and raised in Canada than ones who weren't. All the cold blooded serial killers and rapists that are in federal prison are Canadian. It's rare to hear about an immigrant committing even petty crimes.

Maybe that's because Canada has selective immigration and is quite difficult to get into legally. Why import more criminals when you have enough of your own!

Canada's current policy is actually a reaction to the looser immigration that was previously practiced by other countries. I once read an article about this exact issue and Canada a few years ago, sadly I've no idea what is was called.

**Janszoon** · 12-26-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

If certain non-immigrants and certain immigrants are at the bottom end of the economic scale, then that is where most crimes will be committed from. As I believe most immigrants are more likely through no fault of their own, to be at this bottom end, the liklihood of them committing a crime is higher than somebody more established in society. But if you don't believe that crimes are economically motivated then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Good grief, I feel like we're speaking two different languages here.

I never said I don't think crimes are economically motivated, I said I'm not sure if most are or not. Things like theft presumably are of course, but I don't really see what that has to with a conversation about homicide and gun control. So the real question becomes: Is murder an economically motivated crime? My answer to that is I don't know. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes economic status plays a role in an indirect way, but that's different from being the motivation for the crime.

Now as far as immigration goes, you can keep claiming that immigrants are more likely to commit crime but the data is on my side here. According to this article, for example, natural-born US citizens are five times more likely to end up in prison than immigrants.